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If intelligence doesn't affect class, how would you explain low achievement and worse opportunities in life for those in the scenario described?
The 21st. You?
Of course, it's a tad more complex than that, but it's a good starting point.
Look up "surplus value" sometime.
Oh dear.
oh please dont make me go there.
BTW, I'm not suggesting (and nor was Fiend) that working class people are stupid and middle class people are intelligent. I'm not suggesting that intelligence is enough to allow someone equal opportunities. I am saying that low intelligence can explain why there is an 'underclass'.
Oh dear.
Circumstances can sudenly change overnight for some people.....like it did for me.
Just because I have or had no money does not give anyone the right to make out i am stoopid.
My parents never had lots of money but we always had food on the table and there were 5 kids in total at home. Both parents worked and my Father working long hours to support us, he did very hard manual hard work to support us.
Whilst im on people like yourself may be very well educated......I dont know but put you in a job where you worked 12 hours solid, doing grafting hard work and you couldnt hack it.
alot like my life now, i'd consider myself to be from a working class background, does that title have to stick with me for the rest of my life, i could be a multi millionaire entrepeneur in 10 years time but i've still lived in a working class background, i know what it's like, money, jobs etc has nothing to do with it.
Marvellous !!!
So, remind us what class is then please
it wasnt a general comment, yea poor/working class rich/upper class blah bla bla, i'm saying, you can still claim to be working class if you have a good job and are rich, it's the social condition you were brought up in, therefore, you can technically be working and upper class at the same time.
I beg to differ I have to say this wasnt said by you.
Uh-huh :rolleyes:
Whats your problem with what i said ?
Come on, yes I didnt say 'hard' graft but I think you knew what I mant by grafting. Im talking sweating your bollocks of with hard graft.
I dont think I misunderstood the point neither.
A 12 hour shift as a doctor might be different to manual labour, but I'd consider that bloody hard work.
So they're the same thing?
How often do you see a upper class person working in a factory, working 12 hours and when I say 'work' I mean 'work' ?
Dont act confused because you know exactly what i mean.
why are you putting words in my mouth, i hate people like that not saying i hate you but takin one thing and makin it another is stupid, read the post again, i never said they were the same, i said technically you can be both, mentally have a working class mind and brain but be upper class in what society views you as, i.e havin good job, money, good education etc.
He does that with everyone....your not special
im off to me pit, tara
The reason you don't see an 'upper class' person working in a factory is because they are likely to have an education that provides them with a choice not to do so. They are qualified to do other jobs that are better paid and less physically demanding, and so don't need to do manual jobs. But you cannot possibly stand by your assertion that the middle classes are incapable of 'hard work'. That simply isn't true.
So, your perception can be that you're a member of one class, when actually you're a member of another?
Okay, thats different to both the statements about it being nothing to do with jobs or money, and about being working class and upper class at the same time.
I personally, think that this social mobility is elusive for most people - and I think class is more than just a state of mind.
On a global level, we are a part of the elite - but within this society there clearly is still a working class and a ruling class. The middle class issue is what seems to get everyone confused .........
A ruler or a participant
There are only two glasses if anyone can see
i'm being the opposite in fact, class can only ever be defined by what class is percieved as, my theory is that although there are obvious boundaries and conditions for a class to be defined, you don't always have to be restricted to one type, i would never say he's definately lower class or whatever, you are what you are, full stop.
But there is the steroptypical view of different classes in society, nothing will change that. Others are always going to be less off than others, other people richer, there's always going to be a difference gap between people of different backgrounds.
Everyone can't be the same can we? There's got to be a boundary somewhere in society to define the different sort of people that live today, and there is and that's what is so fucked up about it all.