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No, we haven't agreed that at all.
of course the bus driver can improve his education ...i doubt he'd keep driving the bus for long though.
What do you mean by "Absolute capitalism"? What do you mean by "reducing class differences"? Are you talking about social class, economic class or a synthesis of the two?
Social class? Economic class?
That all sounds very pleasant indeed
Till we get to the matter of money
Then it all falls apart ..........
Cos it appears that busdrivers would earn less than managers in this classless world of yours, so all that would be happening really is a bit of tinkering with labels.
Cos the managers kids would get to go to better schools, and get better jobs, so their kids can go to better schools and get better jobs.
Which is what we were discussing on page 1 of the thread.
My word, there does seem to be quite a few funny folks hanging about these parts dont there :rolleyes:
By reducing class differences, I mean allowing everyone the same opportunity to become workers and owners of the means of production (in your terms). Or at least reducing non meritocratic social advantage.
And we are talking about social class. I thought I made that clear.
You are coming across as extremely arrogant.
And yes, it would be great to have a truly meritocratic society, but unfortunately I don't think that is possible under our economic system.
And yes, social class is more complex than a purely Marxist view. For instance, I come from a socially/culturally lower middle class background and there is a certain amount of social mobility there (e.g. my mum was working class Northern Irish protestant, my dad lower middle class English, I was brought up lower middle class), but there is no mobility into the upper classes - they are protected by political, social and economic power, landownership and notions of "breeding". There is, however, a relationship between social and economic class, albeit a complex one.
So to recap - socially I am lower middle class (background, education, job etc), but economically I am working class.
Have your social values changed since you left your middle class home?
What ftp and eternalsunshine are getting at IMO is that it is not enough to just look at our society - capital is global, and our relative comfort is at the expense of other people.
Yes, we can - but only to a certain extent.
No, that is not what I mean at all.
My politics are different from my parents - my mum is a tory, my dad a classic Liberal. I'm broadly a libertarian socialist.
What I mean is stuff like - I grew up in a semi-detached house in west London, but went to a rough comprehensive school. I was brought up to enjoy learning for its own sake and to have empathy for people (but only the right sort of people), we ahd a nice house, but couldn't afford to go abroad on holiday etc etc.
But my relationship to capital is that I have use my labour to survive.
give that women a pat on the back, well said, people get worked up to easily sometimes, content is the only way to be.
Capitalism does exploit those without the education to know that they are being exploited, I accept that. But it is so much more complicated than that - by paying a wage that British workers would accept for making trainers (for example), the entire economy of the exploited country would be disrupted.
Exploitation to the point of abuse, physical or economic, is a disgrace on our country and most people wouldn't agree with it if they actually knew... Are we not all the same in that regard? Some use brawn, some brain, some have the gift of enterprise, some are destined to work for someone else, some lead, some follow.
I would say that with more access to higher education etc there is more mobility but there is still an underclass of those who live in poverty. This is often geographic I would say, with large pockets in deindustrialised areas etc.
I am not so sure that is true, if I but a load of land, build a big mansion on it etc with my fortune I made from my own business etc then I am in effect living a stereotypical upper-class lifestyle.
Furthermmore I may be knighted etc, or made a lord, and then there is little to distinguish me from them.........
No, no, no.
This explains a bit
http://www.iwca.info/about/quesans.htm
isn't there a desirable limit to how many people go on to higher education?
surely there will never be enough high paid jobs for such highly educated people.
we need truck drivers and plummers you know!
My point is that if Capital is global...then surely Labour must be global too. After all, you cant have one without the other can you