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I have no problem with people joining the BNP if they should want to but they should except that membership is going to arouse heated emotions in people. I can also see the blatant hypocrisy within the ANL who are calling for the BNP as a political party to be banned but it often comes from people who’ve been on the receiving end of right wing aggression. They only see the violence coming from the BNP, not the politics behind it, and understandably want it banned like any other ‘terrorist’ organisation.
I just read that story and its sickening. I think we think it awful for different reasons though. If thats how all left wing marches go then I have no problem with wanting them banned. I've never heard of a BNP march ever turning out like that.
This paragraph was particularly disgusting
"the police were protecting racists"
Does this person really think that in any civilised country, a mob of 60,000 rampaging animals should be allowed to end up on the doorstep of their object of hate. OF COURSE the police protect racists..the same way they will protect paedophiles, rapists and murderers..ITS THEIR JOB. Britain is not run by lynch mobs. Do you honestly believe that it was unfair of the police to protect the BNP offices from a mob of 60,000 enraged people?
What would you say if 60,000 NF and BNP guys turned up outside the offices of a Muslim organisation for example. Would you expect the police to let them go ahead with their plans to remove the office "brick by brick"? Or would you expect the police to stop that rampaging mob? The NF and BNP are to the ANL, an object of hate just as the Muslims are an object of hate to the NF and BNP.
I notice the immense amounts of justification for the violence of the protesters in that article but imagine their condemnation if the NF or BNP had done likewise.
That article has made me feel ill. I just feel sorry for those police forced to get in the way of the mob.
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
A lot of the protesters saw no other way of getting stopping these attracts and they felt that this show of strength would scare the fascists away – it worked - if the police had done their job properly then this march would never have taken place.
A lot of the protesters saw no other way of stopping these attacks and they felt that this show of strength would scare the fascists away – it worked - if the police had done their job properly then this march would never have taken place.
[edited sense to make]
The 60,000 were blacks and asians?
WOW, the BNP attacked 60,000 people AND their families? Now was it the BNP political party who attacked these people or was it just a bunch of generic racists who happen to support the BNP? Im a member of the AA. If I go and beat someone up tommorrow will it be an AA attack?
Can you give me some info as to the origins of this protest? It doesnt say much about it on the site. Was it held in response to the Lawrence case or was that the spark?
Ok now I seriously doubt that the BNP were holding marches or events anywhere near their official offices. I also cant see how removing the offices from the area would remove the fascists. I bet they are still in the area, just now underground where they cant be watched.
Done their job? Wiping out racism? Investigating the Lawrence case? Far as im aware the BNP werent involved in the Lawrence case..In fact the only hate group I saw involved was the Nation of Islam starting brawls.
They are people willing to take the hun on in street activity.But as the BNP as switched to "suits and ties" style racism AFA has melted into the background.
If the BNP try it on again in London i for one hope AFA come back again.
No, Ive never actually heard of the AFA. What makes you think I confuse the two?
From my experience AFA was composed of working class lads (english irish black)some of who had been previously members of the BNP/NF.
But they had had enough of racist cretins beating up their friends and neighbours.
Surely self defence is no offence?
Firstly, it wasnt the BNP who turned up..It was racists who may have been members of the BNP. Say whatever you want,violence is not an official policy of the BNP so please dont generalise so much.
I personally would fight back. What I would not do is involved 59,999 people who have no involvement whatsoever other than having the same colour skin. I also wouldnt go after the offices of an organisation nearby who may or may not have been involved. There was no proof the BNP organised the attacks..Ties in nicely to the WTC thread.
And as for generalisation – weren’t you the one saying that all the protesters in Genoa got what they deserved as there were violent people with them?
Eh? I said id fight back..ie against the racist attackers..Are you suggesting the police are carrying out these racist attacks? Im confused.
No I was not. I suggest you go back and read. I said the VIOLENT protesters got what they deserved..I have stated several times that if peaceful protesters were hurt then it was VERY out of order and the police involved should be prosecuted. Please dont post such ignorant statements, read my posts before passing comment.
I guess that’s where we differ then – You’d rather cosh someone round the head in the dead of night but maybe that would make you no better then them. Me? I’d rather get together with 60,000 other black and white people who are pissed of with these attacks and tell the BNP enough is enough. If there was some people like yourself in the crowd that wanted to fight back physically the police could have singled out the troublemakers, after all they have enough surveillance gear, but it seems that day they chose not to. They could of blocked of each end of the road the BNP building was and waited for the crowd to disperse, but it seems on that day they chose not to. Nope – instead they as good as cornered the crowd and administered a beating to all and sundry
In the eyes of the police you’d be a violent protester - they don’t care how or why. “Mother killed by Nazis?” *Wack* – talk to them about generalisations.
Vigilante action???? If I were attacked on the streets by a racist then I would fight him..I never mentioned going after him.
My god where the hell do you come up with this stuff? I said if im attacked by a racist then I would fight back. If the police turned up then they would break us up and the issue would be sorted out.
With nothing more than hearsay as evidence against the BNP.
ROFLMAO...Were you there? From the article, biased as it is, it sounds to me that the police blocked the area and tried to move the protesters away from the office of the BNP..The protesters wanted to get to the office and rip it apart. By their own tonque they said they were there for violent reasons.
If I were picking up parts of a collapsed wall and hurling them at the police then im sure they would consider me violent.
peacechild ( I must get rid of this bloody silly user name)
[This message has been edited by peacechild (edited 13-09-2001).]
The NF by the way do not believe that world war two was a just war. They believe that it was done for economic reasons, like most of the far left do as well and that there could have been a peaceful solution. They used to carry a banner which said no more brothers wars. They do have a racist policy of repatriation for all none whites and are very nationalistic, but they do not support the ideas of Hitler.
And there it is...I spose youre gonna tell us it was an unprovoked police charge eh?
Nobody is denying there were economic factors involved in WW2...The thing is, real life events arent as black and white as you make out. Thing dont have to be EITHER economic OR humanitarian. The choice is influenced by BOTH..You saying that we fought WW2 for purely economic reasons is BS and it would be BS if I said that it was fought for purely humanitarian reasons..Its a mixture of both.
Do you see how this march was the most law abiding way people could voice their anger.
Circumstantial evidence: Well the BNP open an office, leaflet the place with C18 and the racial attacks start. Hmmm – wonder if there’s any connection there?
You've obviously not been in a confrontation with the police either. There still human – they still get scared when they see a lot of people empowering themselves. Scared enough to lash out. – The crowd sees this and gets pissed off – who’s in the wrong? . You’ve got policemen on the front line no more than kids who are fed this media diet of anarchist mobs with HIV infected balloons and talk of rubber bullets being used and it creates a climate of fear and the senior ranks use this to justify their actions and use of resources. If that march had passed of peacefully with all that police presence the Super would have got a bollocking – they need to justify their job as much as we do and I've seen many a protest turn nasty due to their containment tactics. If your caught in a crush because the police have decided to charge you then your going to be pissed off. The police need this reaction to justify their outlay. I have been asked by a WPC who thought I was a local resident to make a 999 call so they could say they had a reason for being there!
Then a few people threw placards from near the front of the march
A placard? Against full riot gear? Dear me - dangerous terrorists the lot of them. Could have had someones eye out there
Youve gone completely off the point here. It was not an attack on an OAP that triggered this protest/march/riot. You can also be assured that the police would not ignore an OAP being attacked, the press would almost certainly have a field day over it. Please keep your questions to the subject here moonkat. Sorry but you will not convince me that a few racist attacks give you the justification to march on the streets and attempt to attack the offices of a legitimate political party.
It wasnt just a march, they were going to the BNP offices to attack them. They said as much in the article. The police had EVERY right in the world to keep a baying mob away from an innocent office building. Remember we are assumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. We are not pronounced guilty by a lynch mob.
Surely that would point to the people who actually read these leaflets doing the attacks? The BNP arent usually stirred into violence by their own writings im sure. Last week a 17yr old white youth was killed in peterborough by a gang of 10 asians, there are Moslem community groups in the area so should we gather a mob and go and attack their offices? The BNP do not partake in racist violence, if they did then they would not be a political party.
I have had several confrontations with groups of police actually. They maybe nervous, maybe even scared when faced with a group of thousands but they are professional enough to back off and not start anything. I have never heard of a fight being started by the police, I have never read an article saying such. You said yourself that they threw a placard, in such a tense situation I dont blame the police for acting in response to that.
Im sorry but if you cant see the need for the police to hold back a mob baying for blood from the target of their hate then you have some serious problems. The police are here to keep the peace, thats what we pay them for. Did you expect them to just let this mob pass them and attack the BNP offices?
And for the record I would think it acceptable to remove offices of any group stirring up racial tension – black or white – something that as far as I’m aware most community groups don’t do and which the BNP does. I find some of the actions of the Nation of Islam equally abhorrent.
Doesn’t sound very professional to me
Sorry but did you even read the article you posted?
That was before the police did anything. The mob was already in a violent mood before the police even blocked them off.
Ah I see..so the police 'intimidated' them and thats why they attacked? Do you think that a mob of 60k people might be intimidating? The police held themselves and didnt attack until the mob attacked them. I get intimidated when I walk past groups of men at night, should I attack them? If you attack someone everytime you are intimidated then you must live a very sheltered life or currently be in prison.
The point is...Its NOT acceptable to remove the offices via violent mob. What makes this mob any better than the racists? Would you sanction me and a group of 60k people going down to a group I didnt like and tearing the building down and doing god knows what to the inhabitants.
In response to bricks being thrown from a violent unstable mob then its perfectly professional.
Grrr
Have you never heard the phrase “Self defence is no offence”? The people on that march were defending themselves or helping to defend others in the only way they could. They were empowering themselves Police and politicians get frightened when this happens. It means they’re not needed
Blimey Moonkat that sounds like me saying even though I think the majority of protesters are spineless unwashed morons I would defend their right to be heard.
Cor i think I'm in love..marry me <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif">
Sometimes the only way to see your post is to refresh.
peace "the smitten one" child
Im not sure who this is directed to but if its me then Im not happy bombing the shit out of Afghanistan, in fact ive stated its a very bad idea.
BOLLOCKS.
You do not defend yourself by attacking somebody who isnt even directly involved. I STRONGLY object to socialist propoganda being distributed in my area, I believe it will do great harm to this country so do I have the right to 'defend myself' by attacking the people distributing this material?
The ONLY reason the police or council wouldnt do anything about the offensive leaflets is because ITS PERFECTLY LEGAL. If you want to defend yourself then you pursue the person whos attacking you, NOT the person who made information available to them.
Im sorry but anybody who acts on what they read in a leaflet and attacks somebody based on that information ALREADY feels that way. If i read a leaflet detailing the benefits of injecting myself with heroin, I wouldnt automatically go out and do it just because a leaflet told me to...The people doing these attacks were ALREADY racist scum.
Empowering themselves? Is that just another way of telling me they were breaking the law? Of course the police were frightened, a group of 60,000 baying scumbags would scare me. They had clear criminal intent and I COMPLETELY support the police in stopping them reaching the target of that intent.
If a crowd of 60k NF thugs came marching along the street determined to attack and tear down the offices of some minority group would you not agree it was the duty of the police to stop them? The reason for the march is irrelevent when it turns to crime and violence..If a group illegally attacks any building for ANY reason I want the police to stop them.
Its sad that you cannot see this.
Let’s turn this on its head. If say the Nation of Islam started canvassing an area and there was an increase in racially motivated attacks on white people. This is not the case in the UK but it could well be heading that way. What would you do in a similar situation? Would you not feel aggrieved that to all intents and purposes the police and council (99% black in this case) were supporting the NoI? They have no choice they would say. The NoI is a legitimate political party they would say. And rightly too but what choice does this leave you? You think you’ll have a march through town show them your not scared, but low and behold there’s are rather disproportionate amount of black faces staring at you through riot shields and helmets and waving batons and CS gas. Who’s intimidating who here?
Im sorry but thats simply not what they were doing. Its stated in that account that they were out there to destroy that office brick by brick. They wanted to attack the BNP. They didnt want a peaceful march through town to show they werent scared. If they had done that then I wouldnt be arguing this point. They set out with deliberate criminal intent to cause damage to the BNP offices and possibly the staff.
A mob of 60,000 intimidated by a thin line of police?
The fact that you point out that the police are primarily black behind their riot helmets shows that you think this is about colour. You are implying that because the police are white they ignored the actions of the BNP. This has everything to do with colour because you believe the police are racist...I dont.
I pointed out the police in my hypothetical situation were black to remind you that they were. You would feel intimidated if someone of the same ethnicity as those committing the violence were staring back at you through Armplas and marshalling you into a dead end.
You accuse me of leading a sheltered life then say you don’t think the police are racist? Perhaps that’s why we differ so much because I’ve had some very different experiences at the hands of the police which cannot be put down to a few bad apples.