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Why do the BNP & NF marches get banned when......
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Why do the BNP & NF marches get banned when Left wing extremists and other groups who are as violent, ie hunt sabs, ALF are allowed to march/demo?.
In a democracy all views have the right to be expressed whatever they are or does tony blair only allow those who agree with the Labour party have views.
1984 is upon us ?????
Slug
When in trouble or in doubt,
Run in circles scream and shout.........
and do it loud
In a democracy all views have the right to be expressed whatever they are or does tony blair only allow those who agree with the Labour party have views.
1984 is upon us ?????
Slug
When in trouble or in doubt,
Run in circles scream and shout.........
and do it loud
0
Comments
I am FORCED to accept massive immigration into my country and yet should the spectre of English nationalism come into play then the liberals jump on it and brand anyone even slightly involved as racist scum..
Its a glaring hypocracy in todays world...They ban the NF marches but praise the marches of the Anti-Nazi league.
I GUARENTEE the Anti-Nazi league have caused more violence, inflamed more racial tension in the last few months than the NF could ever hope to.
IMO the majority of people in this country will never activley support the BNP or NF, but as the minorities and Liberal extremists are allowed by this Gov't to get away with more and more, many more people are going to show their displeasure.
In Bradford, sorry should be Oldham at the election 11,000 people didn't become members of the BNP and vote for them because of the BNP views but it was one way of showing their disgust at the treatment of the majority in order for tony to appease the minority.
added : I do not support the BNP or NF but I support their right to be heard.
Slug
When in trouble or in doubt,
Run in circles scream and shout.........
and do it loud
[This message has been edited by Slug (edited 21-08-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Slug (edited 21-08-2001).]
Not because I agree with them but because I believe that in a true democracy all views have the right to be heard. I may not agree, and I will voice my disagreement, but you should have the right to air the views.
You should remember though that the language you use does make a difference to the segment of the population that will listen. There are certain phrases which trip off most racists' tongues which instantly turn off most of the electorate (a bit like saying - "Hi I'm the Conservative Candidate" <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif">).
I actually believe that the anti-nazi league are a greater danger to democracy in this country than the BNP or NF.
I dont agree with the BNPs ideas, but the large volume of immigartion is causing problems. And when MP Ann Cryer says that many LEGAL immigrants are importing poverty because they are unable/unwilling to speak English, she has a very valid point, yet is shouted down.
Its a VERY short step to a one-party state. And that frightens me.
It matters not who won or lost, but how you place the blame.
Hmmmmm.....representatives from the BNP and NF would no doubt tell me to "go back to my own country" whereas the Anti-Nazi league reps probably wouldn't. So IMO fuck the BNP/NF hate propaganda. Politics doesn't as a rule interest me much, but this particular area does.
If you honestly believe that then maybe you should go back to your own country (wherever that may be)
That a political group can be banned just because some of its views are disliked by some just smacks of nazi germany or commie russia...
This country is supposed to be a free democracy..Obviously its not...violent fascists get banned whereas even more violent anti-fascists are allowed free reign just because the people they hate arent coloured..fuckin sickening..
You just dropped a long way in my opinion.
Hmmmm..... I think there is a difference between the concept of what they stand for and the idealistic political stance that both those parties take, and me taking abuse from a bunch of NF dickheads. Their right to speak out and march is much removed from the grass roots reality of how their members think.
From the NF own homepage;-
"What are left-wing pro-homosexual teachers telling your children in school today? Are they being taught about the Bible, Saint Alban and the early history of Britain? Constant whinging about slavery, studying foreign religions under the guise of religious education and having to share schools with alien cultures is not education but indoctrination."
Alien cultures?? Please......
I couldnt care less about what the NF and BNP say or think but banning them is a disgusting idea..What happens if the majority of people decide they dont like gays and ban gay pride marches for example..It is completely wrong to ban political expression..I would much rather see these people marching all over the place and being ignored by people than having the marches banned and people secretly listening to what they have to say because of the massive publicity gained and the fact that its so secretive.
I dont think that quote from the NF page is very helpful...I understand they have an interesting way of looking at things but they have the right to think that..There was a time when political parties who spoke about equal rights for blacks were thought of as vile..what would have happened had they been banned..what if the civil rights marches of America had been banned? The majority may rule but its not always right.
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
What you are saying is because you don't like them they can't have the same freedom of speech you do.
Slug
When in trouble or in doubt,
Run in circles scream and shout.........
and do it loud
It's a fair point, political expression should be accessable to all, I wasn't actually arguing against it. What I do object to is their vile and poisonous propaganda that's sugar coated with what they judge the average white bloke on the street wants to hear. This sort of aryan supremacy shit smacks of nazi germany to a surprising degree.
Given their political ideologies is it any wonder they provoke such an extreme reaction?? Both the NF/BNP and the Anti-Nazi League are two extreme sides of the same hate coin, due to circumstances I'd place myself closer to the ANL than NF, but if one side has freedom to express themselves so should the other. I don't live in an anarchistic society so I can't do whatever I want, accordingly there are certain areas of society that I will disagree with, BNP/NF marches and political expression is one of them, I don't like it, but then I don't have to.
As does banning any party who disagrees with your political views.
And that's the point. You don't HAVE to listen, but they should have the right to be heard. If you deny them that right then you deny democracy.
It would be like Blair banning the Tories, becuase he disagrees with their policy on Europe - don't laugh, with his record...
But that's not the point, they have as much right to their beliefs and to have a march as any other group.
If the are banned it would only drive them underground and surely better that you can see/hear what they are up to ?
peacechild
And if I show you my dark side
will you still hold me tonight
and if I open my heart to you
and show you my weak side
what would you do
[This message has been edited by peacechild (edited 30-08-2001).]
While LGB Pride is tolerated (much better now), members of Outrage get arrested for their stunts.
I just hope that you will eventually get the idea that "it aint what you say, it's the way that you say it"
by pro, of course they mean not exceedingly anti. With the introduction of the National Curriculum you can pretty much find out what your child is being taught in any given year.
the NC is, in my eyes, far too prescriptive, but does have the advantage that children moving between schools will not have too much difficulty. The Christians wouldn't stand for it. An undue amount of time is given to what is in the book. who? (don't tell me, I don't want to know - unless you can show me biblical support for saints, and their position in the church I shall consider them to be a corrupt practice) Now would this be the early history of Britain which involves Jesus living here, it being a shining light of christendom and dragon slaying; or would it be the one about waring tribes who tended to be beaten by whichever foreign power set it's mind to it, romans, saxons, normans, child labour, and being paid company script. Must be mentioned 4 or 5 times durig a childs education Cripes yes, education about religions. Oh, you wanted Christian Indoctrination. Sorry - you might try sunday school. Yes you probably would have to go to church yourself. I'm sorry, I think a "not" slipped in where it wasn't needed
The same goes for the JWs and blood transfusions
And as for the Anti-Nazi league getting an easy ride? Well you’re obviously not paying attention.
The British National Party had a ‘festival’ near Welshpool a few weeks ago and obviously the Anti Nazi League had something to say about this so on the 11th of August, they staged a demonstration in Welshpool.
They were supposed to meet in Llanerfyl, near to Nick Griffin's place, but the enormous Police presence kept them away and they were forced to make their way to Welshpool train station. Along the way they passed several roadblocks, manned by police from as far afield as Kiddeminster.
When they finally arrived at the ANL demo, they found out that Dyfed and Powis police were essentially acting as bodyguards and bouncers for the BNP. The BNP had been handing out passes to members who were invited to the 'festival' and the police had been checking these invites at Griffin's request. All this at the taxpayers expense.
The ANL protesters were prevented from entering the BNP site by the Police, and informed that, under sections of the Public Order Act and Criminal Justice Act, they would not be allowed to proceed, and would be detained and searched to "prevent disorder".
Remember that Nick Griffin has been convicted of inciting racial hatred in 1998 and his deputy has been found guilty of bomb-making. The London nailbomber, David Copeland was an active supporter of the BNP and BNP have close links with the remnants of the National Front and Combat 18.
The BNP do not host violent marches these days. If violence broke out at one of their events and it was their fault then the bad publicity they would receive would put them out of business for good. They were having a peaceful festival, it was PRIVATE function on land specifically set out for the RWB festival. They were not marching in public, they were not trying to convert or canvass anyone. They had every right to be there.
Now you object because the ANL couldnt set up their demonstration in the same area???? Dont you think that might lead to violence? The ANL have proved to be far more violent than the BNP these days. You have a problem with the police keeping two potentially violent groups apart do you? The ANL were trying to get into a private event.
The ANL demo was not banned, they were just not allowed to access the BNPs PRIVATE festival. It was a family event with creche and all. I dread to think what would have happened if the ANL miscreants had gotten in.
Moonkat, the fact remains that the BNP have some of their marches banned while the equally destructive and violent ANL get free reign for their public marches.
I ask you this...If the ANL were having a private function for its members and their families. This event was in a private arena with no public access..Now would you have a problem if a few hundred BNP or NF guys turned up at the gates and wanted in? Would you be glad that the police kept them out??
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
For the record the Anti-Nazi League has always been non-violent. You are probably thinking of the Anti-Fascist Action who I believe haven’t been in action for some time.
Also – you’ve got to remember that the ANL etc only came into being as a result of attacks on the ethnic community by hard right wing groups. If the BNP wants to be left alone then perhaps it should disassociate itself from the violence perpetrated in its name. I’ve never heard of the ANL leaving nail-bombs in skinhead pubs.
fair enough I take your point. But you gotta admit that the BNP are disallowed their marches a lot more often than the ANL.
Yup the ANL have said they are non-violent..However they have stirred up just as much resentment and racial tension as the BNP and NF put together.
Personally I cannot think of anything that would get more attention for the BNP and their cause then having the marches banned or have them joined by the ANL..The ANL play right into their grubby little hands by doing all these publicity grabbing things.
BNP would have died off a long time ago had they not been given so much publicity in the media over the years.
The reason (IMO) they don’t get banned as much as the BNP is because when far right organisations attempt a show of strength it makes ordinary people rise up.
Going back to Mosleys and his Black Shirts attempting to march through the East End on London. Something like a half million people stood up to them which understandably the police don’t want to have to deal with everyday. When the ANL march, you may get a few skins throwing the nazi salute (and how very British that is :-/) but nothing like the scale of anger from the local often ethnic community.
It all comes down to public order at the end of the day. Free speech? This is England don’t you know? :-/
If this Gov't banned either or both these groups, which group gets banned next ? This Gov't IMO is slowly eroding away freedoms and is becoming a "big brother".
Tony's way is the only way, that's what he and his cronies want.
peacechild
And if I show you my dark side
will you still hold me tonight
and if I open my heart to you
and show you my weak side
what would you do
The ANL stirs up racial tension by their very being..They hear about a BNP march which has had very little publicity and barely anyone else knows about..They then turn it into a media frenzy and get all the locals involved.they bus in ethnic thugs from elsewhere(just as the nf do with white thugs)..They are just as bad as the BNP..
You also need to differentiate between the BNP and NF..The BNP is a political party. They can no longer work the bully boy angle or else they will be out on their ear..Their agenda failed through violence so now they are pursing it through the ballot box.
The NF are just thugs looking for a scrap, same as the ANL...Of course ANL are as violent as the NF..jsut cos they havent made any bombs means nothin..Any group that screams for tolerance for ethnics and then screams for a policy of absolutely no tolerance for racists is fundamentally flawed and unstable....They preech tolerance but if you disagree with them, they want you dead.
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
Who are the BNP, NF etc violent towards? Innocent members of the public. – that’s why the get their marches banned.
Of course it does! If the ANL haven’t killed anyone then they’re not as violent as the NF!
BNP marches are not violent anymore...If you can show me a BNP march where they have attacked anyone then I will eat my hat...If they were still violent then they would not be an effective political party.
The NF has never killed anyone as far as im aware...Copeland was a BNP member but not a member of the NF...Even so, just because one(mentally disturbed) man set off some bombs hoping to provoke a race war doesnt mean he was ordered to do it by the BNP..He acted alone as proven in court.
Or are you referring to another killing by the NF? If so please enlighten me.
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
I abhor the views of the BNP yet I believe that the ANL are just as anti-democratic in their approach. This shouldn't be a war of attrition, it's a war of ideals, thoughts and words. Convince the public but your arguments not your fists.
The destruction in this city was caused by the ethnic population, sadly- as one vicar said, the ANL and the Pakistanis did the BNP's work for them.
It matters not who won or lost, but how you place the blame.
Well the BNP has never openly advocated violence against ethnic minorities..It doesnt mean that isnt their objective and it certainly doesnt mean it doesnt occur.
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James