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Do they still drink that in the Congo??
Sorry.
I'll get my coat.......
They are dictatorships.
If you went there and started spouting off this stuff you'd get the fright of your life.....there is no freedom of speech there.
peacechild
[This message has been edited by peacechild (edited 04-09-2001).]
Nice one Lord of Little.
the fast show....like it.
And they needed guns to do it sold to them by arms traders who sold at arms fairs......
But look at the mess, we now have mass ethnic cleansing going on.
peacechild
That is sooooo easy to say when youre safely holed up in your home in Britain..Steelgate, you have no idea what these people go through so please dont go on about how they can overthrow the evil regimes..Especially when you condemn the arms trade, through which anyone trying to rebel gets their weapons.
from an overcrowded welshman.
immigration has never, ever been at the scale its at today..We take in 400,000 immigrants/refugees every year now.
This kind of immigration is a thoroughly modern thing. Its only ever happened in the history of the world during the last 50 years.
We are all overcrowded as you said. We have a weeny little island with 60mil people and our pop is increasing at half a mil a year..Its perfectly obvious that soon enough the infrastructure is gonna collapse from sheer numbers
[This message has been edited by Balddog (edited 04-09-2001).]
soapbarbpy, I doubt that I'm anglo saxon and I know I'm not BNP but you can send me to holland if you want, I understand they make very interesting cake overthere.
peacechild
Besides, does population density have any relation to how rich/poor people are?Belguim and Holland both have a higher population density than the uk and yet have higher standards of living.London and the SE of England have the highest standards of living and the highest population densities in the UK.
I would venture to say that one of the main reasons that London is a leading World- leading trading/music/fashion centre is precisely because of the prescence and contribution of economic migrants from every corner of the globe.
peacechild- "bogus leeching economic migrants" Where do you think you originate from?Anthropologists have established without doubt that homo-sapiens originated in Africa.So one day long ago your forebeares arrived on this isle as.... youve guessed it!.....economic migrants!And i bet they didnt bother with any visas!
ROFL thats your source? Firstly it works on estimates and secondly it doesnt take into account any factors other than birth and death rates. Do you even read the newspapers or watch the news? There was a story this week about the population being ready to break the 60mil marker.
Yes, the indigenous population is growing older. Again this does not take into account immigrants..Its a GOVERNMENT fact that 100,000 refugees and 300,000 illegal immigrants are coming into Britain every single year. Its been ALL over the papers this week. I cant believe you are this ignorant.
Who mentioned rich and poor? I said the infrastructure would collapse..It will unless money is spend upgrading the system..With our government that just isnt happening.
ROFLMAO..I can say with 100% certainly that his ancesters didnt come to Britain because the welfare system is the most lax in Europe which is why economic migrants come here.
Total asylum appeals in 2000= 46,190 total granted a massive 17% or 3,340!
Interestingly the figures have been running at about 10% lower in 2001.
The total number of immigrants accepted for whatever reason=125,100 in 2000.
This includes people coming to work in the nhs+schools.
Personally i work in an inner london hospital (Barts)which could not survive without philipino spanish african or aussie nurses ,doctors and technicians.And there are still loads of vacancies due to low wages and high accommodation costs in london.We need all the immigrants we can get!
My x-ray dept contains english welsh bengalis pakistanis afghans south africans aussies kiwis nigerians italians macedonians and chinese either 2nd or 3rd generation or more recent and we get a long just fine -in fact Barts is one of the best hospitals in the uk if not the world.
As for 300,00 illegal immigrants a year that is just total bull put about by god knows who with whatever agenda.Check your facts and post a site.(not stormfront.org)
All people travelling by plane or ferry/eurostar or back of a lorry would claim asylum on arrivaland be included in the figures above or else be deported.So that would mean by your figures 821 people jumping on to the roof of the eurostar or taking the lilo approach everyfuckingday!!!!!!
Funny on my t.v i see maybe a handful of people mooching aound calais and getting turned back but thats about it .
Get the facts and then get a grip!
You obviously live in a cave or under a rock. Over the past 6 months or more there have been reports in every facet of the media about the governments 'fiddling' with the figures...Even the Guardian has commented on it..for you pinko types <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
The various numbers in the govt stats are made to look a lot less than they are..Go through the BBC website and check for yourself. There are hundreds of articles on this very issue.
I dont see your point..NONE of those who work in your hospital are illegal immigrants. They ALL came here legally and I have no problem whatsoever with that.
I know my facts, I suggest you do some reading. That figure has been put forward in both conservative and liberal newspapers so what agenda are they pushing??The truth perhaps?
Exactly how does my dislike of illegal immigrants equate to me being a white supremacist? Please explain why you think me a fascist.
right back at ya.
From memory, what are currently called the Welsh were once the mass Pict immigration.
Of course, the Irish were the Scots, the Northern Irish more recent Scots...
As raw numbers, perhaps, but as %ages of population?
Personally, I have a much greater problem with economic migrants. Bastards train over here for 8 years; at the taxpayers expense; use NHS patients as training aids; get huge student loans; then bugger off to the states and work as doctors over there.
Not sure on the percentages but you can be assured that we have not had this level of immigration ever before. Im not including the Roman invasion as I dont know the numbers involved and they didnt stay.
hehe Im not sure I would class training in an NHS hospital as a benefit <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif">
Cast your mind back to the year 650AD when this country was peopled by peace loving civilised celts.
And then a load of unwashed heathen savages arrived (i think they were called the anglo saxons)and proceeded to take over practically the entire country in a little over 100 years stamping out Celtic language and culture as they went.
And these people have the cheek to say the country is "full-up" now,well i think it was full up in 650ad and youve overstayed your welcome-maybe we could meet up in the `Dam one day to discuss old times!
Interesting..You compare the invasion and occupation of Britain with the current immigration crisis...The thing is soapbarbpy, the angles and the saxons(two different groups of people), did not emigrate to Britain, they invaded it and then occupied it.
There also wasnt quite 60,000,000 people living in Britain at the time. Probably less than 2 million. There was therefore, much more land available to accomodate the new settlers.
Again, there wasnt anywhere near 60 million people in Britain at the time. Theres no way in hell this country can feed itself, we have to import food or we would starve..Roads are constantly jammed, the NHS is woefully stretched, poverty is all over the place. This country is packed, almost to breaking point.
Sorry i dont understand this. Whats a 'Dam?
A lot of people expect perfection from left wing activist groups - you seem to think that they must all act like little Gandhi’s to retain the moral high ground. Well I think that the fact their against the Nazis in the first place gives them the moral high ground to fight fire with fire.
He means Amsterdam
Maybe they see WW2 as an unjust war. I dont know the NFs take on Hitler. I would assume they worship him but ive not seen mention of him on their website. Say what you want about the NF, they love this country so they might want to honour its dead.
For what its worth, ive visited many German cemetaries and paid my respects to the German dead of two world wars. Doesnt mean im a nazi or a hypocrite.
I think most people expect the anti nazi groups NOT to act like nazis themselves.
Bollocks does it. I guess they must have used the same kind of justification for the bombing of dresden..We are fighting nazis so whatever we do is justified. Whats the quote about fighting the monster you face the danger of becoming the monster.
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
[This message has been edited by MacKenZie (edited 10-09-2001).]
The bombing of Dresden involved the deaths of many civilians who were innocent of crimes and not engaged in war;women and children. It was utterly unspecific. ANL actions versus NF/BNP are totally specific, only targetting those who display fascist/racist tendencies...if ANL firebombed random houses of white peole who 'might' be racist, you'd have a point, but they only target nazis, so you don't. As far as i'm concerned, the less nazis in this world the better.
<so ends the 'liberal' agenda, waits to be condemned as 'nazi' for saying that the only good nazi is a dead one>
Examples please of incidences involving the ANL acting like Nazis then?
Stopping a hate inducing NF march is the same as targeting innocent civilians with violence and hatred because they’re the wrong colour is it?
You’ve one seriously fucked up view of the world if you think that’s the case and the racism dressed up as ‘equal rights for right wing bigots’ in this topic is readily apparent
Doesnt matter what the action was. Moonkat said that because they were opposing the nazis then they could 'fight fire with fire'. Now unless i misread then that means they can justify using the same tactics as the nazis?
The nazis were not only violent as im sure you are aware. The ANL wishes to supress any views they disagree with, they wish all nazis dead(generalisation there but ive read it on several msg boards). They resort to the same tactics as the BNP by publishing personal details of their opponants on the net. They protest against the BNP pushing their views onto the public but get in a huge uproar if anyone suggests that they stop pushing their own views on the same public.
Is not a march against the NF hate inducing? Does it not incite hatred towards the NF marchers? Hate is hate, whichever way it goes.
Sorry but if you think one extremist group is any better than another extremist group just because one has different views then you have a fucked up view. Extremism on either side of the spectrum is very dangerous.
Ah now we come down to the age old argument...Im a racist. If you run out of arguments then call the other guy a racist..Well done.
Show me exactly where my racism is 'readily apparent'
I agree with nothing the NF stands for, I agree with a few of the BNP policies and if you read their manifesto im sure you would as well. However, due to their repatriation policy I could never seriously support them.
I happen to find communism utterly distasteful but I would never call for it to be banned from the political scene but the ANL and others call for the BNP and its ilk to be banned completely. Sorry but I happen to believe in freedom of ideas, if people want to be nazis then its their choice, NOT YOURS. If you wanna be a socialist its your choice NOT MINE.
When those nazis or socialists break the law then I have a problem with them. Until they break the law they can believe in what the hell they want, however nasty those views may be.
Its sad you had to lower yourself to calling me a racist Moonkat, I thought more of you than that.
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
I never mentioned you personally and I'm sorry if that’s what I implied. You certainly keep some very dodgy company though… <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif">
Anyway
Your right of course – hate is hate but once again were back to the ‘who started it’ argument. If the NF’s polices weren’t so abhorrent to so many people then there wouldn’t an ANL.
You can’t say that when they (the NF) take it upon themselves to march through predominately minority populated areas they don’t have just a little inclination its going to stir up resentment.
Ask anyone which group of ‘extremists’ they’d rather have the police clamp down on. The ones who post letter bombs to members of the public or the ones who do there best to stop the people sending the letter bombs.
Ok then, im sorry if I misread.
Maybe but I would argue that the ANL has done more to promote the NF and BNP than they could ever hope to do themselves. If they were just allowed to march then they would be by and large ignored. When we have the ANL leafleting the place and alerting people to the evils of the BNP then all they do is make people more aware of them.
Couple of months back there was a big Sikh festival/parade thing that went through one of the neighbouring towns here. It went through a large, very poor Muslim area of the town. There have been confrontations between the muslim and sikh communities here before and this march stirred up resentment, enough to push some of the muslims to violence..
Anyway the point is moot because the NF is banned whenever they plan a march nowadays. Of course ANL marches arent.
Ok this always comes up. Now is it a policy of the NF to letterbomb people? Do they all do it? Or was it the action of a disturbed man who happened to be affiliated with the NF? Im sure if we checked the criminal records of the ANL members we would come up with some interesting stuff.
I think if you took a member of the public to an NF march and asked them to point out the extremists then they would only be able to tell the difference by the banners of the ANL and the braces and bomber jackets of the NF. Both groups act like animals when near each other, screaming and shouting.
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
Much the same thing has happened with the anti-capitalist protestors in that they’re demonised for the actions of a few people. However most if not all of anti-capitalists have always denounced violence – something which to the best of my knowledge the BNP have not done and even if they were to do so tomorrow the feelings that their polices arouse, violence or no violence, would still be there. If their policies espouse hatred then they must accept some hatred to come back at them. They can't have it both ways
I *think* the ANL marches were banned in Oldham following the troubles and the NF have had no trouble marching around Margate in recent months too.
Thats fair enough. Im almost certain they arent bothered about the ANL thinking they arent nice people.
I go on about the rights of the BNP and NF but I should say that of course the ANL has the right to hate them and launch their counter protests. What they dont have the right to do is demand the banning of either of these groups. They have no more right to do that then if the BNP were to demand the ANL were banned.
Nope, the NF march was banned and the ANL still turned up to protest but there was no NF presence there to protest.
Mind if I ask where you are in the country Moonkat? I only ask to see if youve had any experience with either of these groups marches. I live down here in Hertfordshire which isnt a hotbed of racial tension. I've never even seen an NF or BNP march let alone met one of them in real life. I am not a supporter of them but rather a supporter of their right to be them.
[This message has been edited by Balddog (edited 10-09-2001).]