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It matters not who won or lost, but how you place the blame.
Most of the violence seemed to be in frustration at the bad conditions in the area rather than against racism. I suppose that was why there was looting and torching of cars. The local asians were just fed up.
The local whites live in even worse conditions as the "ethnic" minorites are nearly always a higher priority now as they scream racism if they don't get what they want.
The local whites are fed up they don't loot and riot.
peacechild
In 1981 and 1985 Britain was swept by a wave of inner city rioting which involved both black and white youths. The worst hit place was Toxteth in Liverpool where more whites took part than blacks. The same reasons were behind that as the rioting in Oldham, unemployment and poverty. So it is not true that one race are more violent than another.
comparing 1985 and 1981 riots with those recently in Oldham is misleading..There were far fewer asians around in the early 80's..FAR fewer.
In the recent riots the ethnics and whites live in more or less the same levels of poverty. Of course preferential treatment is given to the ethnics because they are a minority but they are at basically the same level...
two groups of people in the same circumstances..One group of people riots and runs rampant around the town..
I dont believe asians are more violent than whites for a second..What I do believe is that they have been living in a victim culture for so fuckin long they dont know achieve anything without whining and violence...whites and ethnics are in the same situation but the constant rhetoric about evil whites that is spewed by the ethnic 'community leaders' is what stirs up the asians..They make the normal Joe Patel think the world owes him something..When he doesnt get what he wants, he riots.
If normal people were allowed just to live together then they would get along fine..People aint born racist..The government runs things like the CRE that do nothing but divide people. We have community leaders like that labour party member who got his head kicked in...These people will put themselves out of a job if they ever solve the problems so they keep them going..
If Britain is ever to see racial harmony then the government needs to back the hell out of peoples lives.
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
[This message has been edited by Steelgate (edited 02-09-2001).]
So there were white guys running round in that huge mob of asians?
I believe we have a poster from Bradford here. Did any of the Bradford insiders hear of or see any white guys running round wrecking and burning stuff with the asians.
Even if there were a bunch of whites running round with the asians the fact remains that an entire section of the asian community went wild...Of course if the whites there had been constantly told for over a decade that they were hopeless victims of an evil racist world then they would probably have riotted as well.
they were almost exclusively Muslims from Pakistan and Bangladesh.
It was 99% Pakistani and Bangladeshi, and whatever spin you try to put on it they still burned down a Labour Club (obviously racist) WITH PEOPLE INSIDE. They are positively discriminated for in this city...my mate was mugged in a prk with CCTV by a gang of 15 of them, conveniently the tape was broke.
I KNOW 99.9% of their community are good, honest people, but the other 0.1% give this city a bad name. And the police are too scared to stop them. Im not being racist, but it is a FACT that the white thugs in this city do NOT burn down clubs with 100 people inside them.
It matters not who won or lost, but how you place the blame.
Some of the violence in Bradford was totally out of order like the stabbing of two white youths. But other violence like the attacking of a car showrooms that sold BMWs was more out of anger at local conditions, with a BMW car showroom in an area of povety being seen as an insult.
The riot in Bradford was not just about asians fighting racism. The people there had had enough and were fighting back in the most militant way they thought possible. A lot of the whites there seem to have fallen for the lies put forward by the BNP.
The only solution to the problems faced by both asians and whites though is not to fall into a white versus asian trap which could easily happen but to fight against the real problems facing their communities bad housing and lack of jobs.
Of course it makes a difference who the violence is directed too when it comes to banning marches. I appreciate there are bigger issues being discussed here but on the subject of what gets banned and why imagine that were back in the bad old days of football hooliganism. Imagine that instead of fighting with other ‘fans’ the crews wreaked havoc on the local community.
The police would come down on them like a tonne of bricks and you’d have little or no football matches being played at all. Because the ‘fans’ fought amongst themselves it wasn’t considered so much of an issue.
The police aren’t fawning to the ANL anymore than they are to the BNP, its just a public order issue. (Although I have my own views on police racism – being asked what I was doing hanging around with these ‘paki cunts’ by the local bobby when I was 16 may have something to do with that)
I’ll agree that the BNP don’t personally advocate violence but I’ve yet to here Griffin distance his party from it – rather he says that he “understands why people would resort to violence against minorities”
The truth is that people on the extreme left or right of the political fence are going to resort to violence and when your caught up in a riot the mob mentality takes over and anything goes.
People with no political views whatsoever use the cover of the crowd to let off some steam. A good example of this would be this years May Day. The John Lewis shop got wrecked by a load of kids who knew fuck all about why the rest of the people were there and decided it would be fun to destroy a worker owned co-operative.
And you and your mates there think we are all right wing bastards and support the BNP and NF, I don't remember any post in this topic that says we support the NF etc.
peacechild
I believe he had another name registered here. It looks like he was dragonfly but dont quote me on that one.
Ive just been reading his comments on Urban75 as well. Interesting that he doesnt bother saying that kind of thing to our faces. He just sees fit to talk crap about us on another site.
Hes labelled us right wing bigots and yet I havent read a single post on here that agrees with the BNP or NF in any way at all. Supporting a group and supporting their democratic right to free speech are completely different things.
Steelgate, if you want to insult us then please do it to our faces you little worm
He has slagged off Urban75 posters on other boards just as much as you lot so don't think your anything special. <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif">
would that be in the workers re education gulags ? or maybe Pol Pot's re education camps.....
peacechild
re-education eh? <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
as peacechild said, are you gonna send me to the gulags? maybe call in the ministry of the interior..Nothing like a bit of NKVD re-education.
Moon, are you a commie pinko like steel?
I read about him and the about the 13 year old thing too – someone brought it up on U75. I don’t think its as bad as it sounds as he was only giving advice even if it was totally crap but I admit steelgate + 13 year old girl + discussion on sex does sound pretty horrific
You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif">
Dont forget 13,000 did in Oldham, 11,000 did in Burnley and many more round the country.
I think the thread is about why right wing marches are banned but not left wing. To illustrate the point BNP/NF = right and ANL= Left.
Support who you want as you say it's your right.
peacechild
The BNP is wrong, but what happened here is making their job easier.
It matters not who won or lost, but how you place the blame.
Peacechild, I think you are right wing of the conservative party type rather than the BNP/NF type. As the conservative party believe strongly in capitalism and are against political correctness. You also seem to have never read a left wing paper in your life. If you only read papers like the sun and daily mail you will only read a biased right wing view of news and event. I suggest you visit www.indymedia.org.uk for an unbiased view of the news.
[This message has been edited by Steelgate (edited 03-09-2001).]
I'm going to stray OT here.
ALL papers are biased one way or another and if you think that the indy link you posted is unbiased you must be pissed.
I am probably extreme in some of my views but not left or right wing a mix of both, I don't read the sun or mail. I treat people how they treat me. My views are mine I don't push them on people and don't try to "convert" people to my views.
The colour of your skin is not what I base a person on. I don't give a flying fuck what colour, race or creed people are, I'll either like you or I won't.
I have been lucky in that I have been to many places round the world , run by right and left wing Gov'ts and the truth is if you are at the bottom of the pile you will still be there whoever takes power, for instance the people in the townships of Africa are worse off now than before.
Many older Africans that I have spoken with that can remember the old Colonial days wish the white man was back because even though they may have been second class citizens in their own country they were better off.
BNP, ANL they don't know what life is they are both just playing as far as I'm concerned.
All Gov'ts are corrupt and I mean ALL.
I've watched the planes carrying aid into some shitty 3rd world country and then watched 99% of it being flogged off on the black market, by the Gov't officials who don't give a toss for their own people as long as they make a few dollars.
How old are you Steelgate ? grow up and have some thoughts of your own instead of spouting the little red book, it's all been said before. I assume you are young, ( If you are I shouldn't really have a go at you, as you like all of us have to learn and the older you get the more you see and learn) when you have been there seen done it and got the T shirt maybe you might see things differently.
My views are shaped by what I have seen and done , doesn't make me right or wrong.
peacechild
Here is a link to a detailed account on why there are major problems in Africa.
Have you been to Africa ? Have you spoken to Africans in the Townships, in the the Bush ? in their villages ?
These are the people at the bottom of the pile and life is worse now than when the Colonials ran their countries.
Colonialism has been replaced by a far more corrupt Tribal system, the ruling tribe lives well the rest don't.
Go to these places if you can and then tell me what you think.
I have been to these places and I've seen it.
I'm not picking on you personaly but you are just spouting off the "Party" line.
Again how old are you ? where outside of the UK have you been ?
peacechild
The festering of tribalist, nationalist and racist sentiment are nurtured and sustained by the capitalist system of production which produces only for profits and not for needs. The abolition of the profit system and its replacement with socialism based on the common ownership and democratic control of the means and instruments for production and distribution would put an end to discrimination and bigotry. But this cannot happen unless people understand and see the need for this kind of change. More than ever before, the formation of socialist parties in Africa to take up the task of spreading the socialist message has become urgent.
That would be much better than a return to colonialism as you suggest.
You might see Africas movement to full on socialism to be the best course of action. The succession of african dictators would probably disagree. They much prefer to go for a pseudo-marxist setup, which basically lets them, as the state, own all the wealth in the entire country.
Your high ideals are all well and good but nobody wants them except well off, middle class, anglo/american whites.
Go to Africa spouting your liberal ideals and you will be chopped up and eaten before you can say um bongo.