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Is gingerism a form of racism?

124

Comments

  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    Your comparisons to Morris dancers And Man Utd fans make you look down right ignorant. They're ridiculous.

    Gypsies and Irish Travellers are recognised ethnic groups for the purposes of the Race Relations Act (1976), identified as having a shared culture, language and beliefs

    * Roma are recorded in Greece and Turkey around 1000AD and in Scotland in 1505. * 'Gypsy' is thought to be a derivative of Egyptian, which is what the settled population believed the Roma to be. * Irish Travellers have been known as a distinct group since 400AD. * Case law established Gypsies as a recognised ethnic group in 1988 (CRE v Dutton) and Irish Travellers in England and Wales in August 2000 (O'Leary v Allied Domecq).

    Historically your wrong and legally you're wrong.

    Whats your definition of ethnicity?
    Yesterday is history
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So does this mean if I sold my home, put all my possessions in a caravan and became a traveller, that would give me 'gypsy' status, therefore extra protection as an 'ethnic minority'?
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    CM Punk wrote: »
    So does this mean if I sold my home, put all my possessions in a caravan and became a traveller, that would give me 'gypsy' status, therefore extra protection as an 'ethnic minority'?

    No. It would make you a man in a caravan.

    Have you not read anything I've posted. There is also no such thing as 'gyspy' status. And they don't get extra protection just because they are separate ethnic groups, infact Romany and Irish travellers are the two ethnic groups most likely to suffer discrimination in the UK today.

    Both Romany and Irish Travellers have distinct ethnic identities defined by shared culture, beliefs, language, history, tradition and biology.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiziganism#United_Kingdom
    Makes interesting reading
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
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    That’s why it’s call the present
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    Though most travellers are not of Romany descent.

    They are the largest group of travellers in the UK actually.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not often I say this, but I'm with Skive here.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »

    Have you not read anything I've posted.

    Very little. Possibly none in fact. And I'm not saying they get extra protection - I was asking if *I* would get 'minority' protection on top of what I already get for my ADHD, hence the 'extra'.

    I'm sure I've seen/read/heard news reports where people have been accused of racism for calling travellers 'f***ing gypos' or something along those lines. So I'm just trying to establish what the criteria would be for it to be classed a racist attack in terms of the victim. Would he/she have to supply some sort of proof that they're of Romany or Irish Travelling heritage? And if so, how?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't know any blonde women who feel "terrible" hearing jokes, do you?
    And if they do, why exactly, if blond men hearing the above don't?
    Is the amount of jokes relevant to if it's an "attack"? Is either kind an "attack" for real? What's your evidence?

    I don't feel terrible hearing blonde jokes - but at times it does frustrate me when some people make the assumption that because you're a blonde girl you must be dim.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't feel terrible hearing blonde jokes - but at times it does frustrate me when some people make the assumption that because you're a blonde girl you must be dim.

    Feel sorry for my wife then, she's not only blonde but she still speaks with a Texan accent (and has a PhD from an Ivy League University)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't feel terrible hearing blonde jokes - but at times it does frustrate me when some people make the assumption that because you're a blonde girl you must be dim.

    Blonde jokes have never really bothered me, but there are a worrying amount of people that genuinely believe that blonde girls are stupid. I always feel the need to 'prove' that I'm not in fact thick as shit, just because of the colour of my hair.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    CM Punk wrote: »
    Very little. Possibly none in fact. And I'm not saying they get extra protection - I was asking if *I* would get 'minority' protection

    Not so sure you get extra protection for being a in minority ethnic or social group. You simply have a right not be discriminated against - same as everybody else in the county.
    CM Punk wrote: »
    I'm sure I've seen/read/heard news reports where people have been accused of racism for calling travellers 'f***ing gypos' or something along those lines. So I'm just trying to establish what the criteria would be for it to be classed a racist attack in terms of the victim. Would he/she have to supply some sort of proof that they're of Romany or Irish Travelling heritage? And if so, how?

    Funny that you star out the work fucking. Gypo and Pikey are racial slurs against Romany and Irish Travellers, just like Nigger is against black people, and Yid is against Jews. Doesn't really matter who you use it against, its racist language.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Not so sure you get extra protection for being a in minority ethnic or social group. You simply have a right not be discriminated against - same as everybody else in the county.

    Extra protection in that my employer cannot sack me for being unable to carry out a task due to my ADHD.


    Skive wrote: »
    Funny that you star out the work fucking. Gypo and Pikey are racial slurs against Romany and Irish Travellers, just like Nigger is against black people, and Yid is against Jews. Doesn't really matter who you use it against, its racist language.

    Funny that I starred it out because I don't know what this site's swear filter is like, and had I starred out 'gypo' then I don't know if I could be sure if people knew what I was saying.

    Fancy taking a crack at what I was asking?
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    CM Punk wrote: »
    Extra protection in that my employer cannot sack me for being unable to carry out a task due to my ADHD.

    It's the same right and protection afforded to everybody in this country. We all have the right not to be discriminated against whether that be due to race, disability, sex, age, hair colour etc
    CM Punk wrote: »
    Funny that I starred it out because I don't know what this site's swear filter is like, and had I starred out 'gypo' then I don't know if I could be sure if people knew what I was saying.

    Fancy taking a crack at what I was asking?

    I answered it. Its racist language whoever its aimed at. Calling an Indian man a Paki is racist though he isn't from Pakistan.
    If I called somebody from Tottenham a Yid that would also be racist even if they wern't Jewish.
    You don't need a victim to prove somebody is racist or using racist language.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    It's the same right and protection afforded to everybody in this country. We all have the right not to be discriminated against whether that be due to race, disability, sex, age, hair colour etc

    It isn't the same for everyone. If you and I were told to undertake a particular task at work and we both failed to complete it correctly, you because you couldn't be bothered, was not listening, just couldn't be arsed or simply didnt have the required skills/abilities and my failure was down to my disability, our employer could take disciplinery action against you. They could not readily do the same for me.


    Skive wrote: »
    II answered it. Its racist language whoever its aimed at. Calling an Indian man a Paki is racist though he isn't from Pakistan.
    If I called somebody from Tottenham a Yid that would also be racist even if they wern't Jewish.
    You don't need an victim to prove somebody is racist or using racist language.

    So if a white person (in jest/banter) called me a 'white twat', he could get prosecuted for that?
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    CM Punk wrote: »
    It isn't the same for everyone. If you and I were told to undertake a particular task at work and we both failed to complete it correctly, you because you couldn't be bothered, was not listening, just couldn't be arsed or simply didnt have the required skills/abilities and my failure was down to my disability, our employer could take disciplinery action against you. They could not readily do the same for me.

    Well that's two different things. I don't think you are going to grasp the concept I'm trying to get across to you.
    You're 'extra protection' comes under the The Human Rights Act 1998 - something that covers each and everyone of us.
    http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/right-to-receive-equal-treatment/human-rights-and-discrimination.shtml
    Women don't 'extra protection' for being women, they just get the right not to be discriminated against for having a vagina.


    CM Punk wrote: »
    So if a white person (in jest/banter) called me a 'white twat', he could get prosecuted for that?

    Do you think calling somebody a Gypo, Paki or Nigger is comparable to one white person calling another white person (in jest) a white twat? I'm not sure the CPS would be too interested in a prosecution. Need some common sense here. Are you disputing the fact that Gypo is a racial slur then? You keep asking questions without stating your opinion.

    Oh, and there are racial and ethnic slurs that exist against white people, ever heard the words Honky or Cracker?
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Well that's two different things. I don't think you are going to grasp the concept I'm trying to get across to you.
    You're 'extra protection' comes under the The Human Rights Act 1998 - something that covers each and everyone of us.
    http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/right-to-receive-equal-treatment/human-rights-and-discrimination.shtml
    Women don't 'extra protection' for being women, they just get the right not to be discriminated against for having a vagina.

    Different terminology but essentially the same thing. I cannot be sacked from my job for being unable to do a task that my ADHD causes me problems with. You may call it "right not to be discriminated against" (which is valid), I call it 'extra protection at work. I live it and experience it every day.

    Skive wrote: »
    Do you think calling somebody a Gypo, Paki or Nigger is comparable to one white person calling another white person (in jest) a white twat? I'm not sure the CPS would be too interested in a prosecution. Need some common sense here. Are you disputing the fact that Gypo is a racial slur then? You keep asking questions without stating your opinion.

    I've not stated my opinion because I've not formed one yet - this is why I'm asking questions but you seem quite happy to keep moving the goalposts.

    I asked if I decided to become a traveller and someone called me a 'gypo' would that be classed as them being racist because I was wondering would I have to prove I had the heritage. After all, 'gypo' is an offensive and as you say racist term. So is 'white twat'. The difference being in my example was the slur when from a white person to a white person. Which of course would be different to a white person calling a black person a 'black twat'. Which follows (if I'm understanding this) that the question of whether or not the person was being racist is based on each other's colour which of course is easy to verify.

    If I called you a "stupid gypo" (I'm not btw) am I being racist to you? Presumably you live in a building so I'm guessing not. If I said the same but you lived in a caravan, am I being racist there?

    Skive wrote: »
    Oh, and there are racial and ethnic slurs that exist against white people, ever heard the words Honky or Cracker?

    Yes and I'm sure I know quite a few more than you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    grace wrote: »
    Blonde jokes have never really bothered me, but there are a worrying amount of people that genuinely believe that blonde girls are stupid. I always feel the need to 'prove' that I'm not in fact thick as shit, just because of the colour of my hair.

    exactly, and just because youre (and other women) are just resigned to it, does not make it funny or not damaging
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    CM Punk wrote: »





    So if a white person (in jest/banter) called me a 'white twat', he could get prosecuted for that?

    Well as part of the most priveleged group on the planet, its not really ever taken as particularly offensive
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well as part of the most priveleged group on the planet, its not really ever taken as particularly offensive

    <satire>

    Or very seriously?

    </satire>
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    why would a white person call you a white twat
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    why would a white person call you a white twat

    If you knew me in real life you'd get the latter half. The 'white' part (not justifying, only explaining) came from showing him my attempts at dancing. You know this idea that apparently black people tend to be better at dancing (not asking you to agree. I'm just acknowledging a stereotype for the purpose of making a point)? He said I was white, mid-to-late 30s and should not be seen dancing in public. He wasn't serious, it was just between us.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    LOL, well its more of a joke then, but doesnt signify any malice usually. Black people usually would take more offence at black being used as a derogatory term because of the history and the fact that theyre still a discriminated against and disadvantaged people in general. The term white doesnt have anything like the same negative connotations or the same history of oppression, in fact being the oppressors. You know this already!
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    CM Punk wrote: »
    If I called you a "stupid gypo" (I'm not btw) am I being racist to you? Presumably you live in a building so I'm guessing not. If I said the same but you lived in a caravan, am I being racist there?

    You are being racist because you are using racist language in a derogatory way.

    If you run around using words like nigger, paki, gypo etc, you are using racist language. It doesn' t matter if you are aiming it at an individual or not, it's racist.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    CM Punk wrote: »
    Different terminology but essentially the same thing. I cannot be sacked from my job for being unable to do a task that my ADHD causes me problems with. You may call it "right not to be discriminated against" (which is valid), I call it 'extra protection at work. I live it and experience it every day.

    Rubbish. The Equality Act says a disabled person must be given reasonable adjustments in the workplace to be able to carry out their duties effectively. If an employer does that, and you're still rubbish at your job, then you can be sacked. So the "extra protection" is merely that your employer cannot deliberately make you do things you cannot do in order to sack you.
    Skive wrote:
    Romany and Irish travellers are the two ethnic groups most likely to suffer discrimination in the UK today.

    Both Romany and Irish Travellers have distinct ethnic identities defined by shared culture, beliefs, language, history, tradition and biology.

    The abuse that travellers get is disgusting. And they should be protected from it. But defining them as a separate race of people just belittles everything. They're not a separate race.

    You could say the same about rural Cumbrians: they have a shared culture, shared beliefs, their own language, history, traditions and biology. I'm not being facetious either, they do. But being Cumbrian isn't a race.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    You could say the same about rural Cumbrians: they have a shared culture, shared beliefs, their own language, history, traditions and biology. I'm not being facetious either, they do. But being Cumbrian isn't a race.

    No you couldn't .

    Romani people have a separate genetic identity that can be traced back to Northern Indian 1500 years ago. They have a separate language called Sanskrit, and traditions and culture that go back hundreds of years. They are a people, and ethnic group, a race.

    Cumbria is a county that has existed since 1974, a place, not a people.. There's no separate genetic profile for Cumbrians, they have a dialect not a language, and their culture isn't much different than those in the rest of rural Britain.

    If I move to rural Cumbria have a child then that child would be Cumbrian. If I move into a caravan and have a child, it does not make that child Romani.

    Romani are a race of people and fit every definition of race, would it help you to accept it if they had darker skin?
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    is there a seperate genetic profile for irish gypsies?
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/health/dna-study-travellers-a-distinct-ethnicity-156324.html

    "THE first DNA analysis of the Travelling community has proven that it is a distinct ethnic minority who separated from the settled community between 1,000 and 2,000 years ago"
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont see why Gyspsies have different rights and responsibilities to the rest of the population. I dont see how you can just outlaw yourself because of being a slightly different ethnic minority.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    I dont see why Gyspsies have different rights and responsibilities to the rest of the population. I dont see how you can just outlaw yourself because of being a slightly different ethnic minority.

    What different rights and responsibilities do they have?
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The right to not educate their children. The right to beat their wives and daughters and pretty much use them as slave labour.
    Gypsy courts. They tend to see themselves as entirely different. If laws are broken it tends to be allowed to be dealt with in the community.

    I get fed up with the fear of being called racist meaning that you cant call on shit behaviour when it happens. Not just meaning gypsies. I know youre friends with a lot of gypsy blokes skive, but Do you think the way traveller women and girls are treated is OK?
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    They don't have any right to beat their women, most don't? I went to school with Romani Gypsies, they are still required to go to school, but with the grief some of them used to get was unreal, even from teachers, I wouldn't be too keen to send my kid to a mainstream school either.

    Not saying ther arn't problems within the community but they a closed community, and a lot of that has to do with the fact they are the more likely to suffer discrimiantion than any other ethnic group.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
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