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Is gingerism a form of racism?

245

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    The not many groups of people it's still socially acceptable to discriminates against, gingers and gypsies still seen to be fair game though.

    This. People often have no qualms making rather horrible anti-ginger 'jokes' and statements when I am present in a discussion (often followed by a swift 'no offence' disclaimer because they forgot I was there when they realise I'm not laughing) or right out to my face. I just don't understand why we're considered to be fair game when to make a racist/sexist or any other kind of comment would have everyone up in arms. Maybe because I am ginger it gets on my nerves more, usually just make a sarcastic comment but I do hear it all the time and I get sick of people presuming that it doesn't really count so therefore it's ok and expect me to find it funny.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The term 'racism' seems to be used as a sloppy catch-all term in replace of 'small-mindedness', 'bigot', 'cunty' etc. I suspect people think it give their argument more gravitas.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The term 'racism' seems to be used as a sloppy catch-all term in replace of 'small-mindedness', 'bigot', 'cunty' etc. I suspect people think it give their argument more gravitas.

    Spot-on.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Has anyone mentioned blonde jokes yet?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I love redheads. :)
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    Has anyone mentioned blonde jokes yet?
    I think someone has.
    Is it really comparable though? From what I understand (because I only know about it through thesite) there is proper abuse of redheads in the UK, while I've never have of anyone, as far as I can remember, who really thinks blondes are disproportionately more stupid than anyone else.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Cant find the youtube clip but reminds me of a great bit Stewart Lee did on Jimmy Hill comparing Rob Atkinson calling a black football player a 'nigger' to someone calling him 'chinny' on account of his big chin. Bit long to read but the man makes a good point.
    Ron Atkinson, the football manager, he got in trouble for calling a black footballer a lazy, thick nigger. Loads of people complained about it and then on May 17th, Jimmy Hill, the BBC-employed football commentator, came out in Ron Atkinsons defence, and said, that in his opinion, it was a load of fuss about nothing. He said in the papers, 17th of May, You have to understand that in the culture of football, calling a black man a nigger is just a bit of harmless fun. And I thought, Call me old-fashioned. I know the culture of football has a very broad definition of harmless fun, broad enough to include carrying out a racial assault and still getting in the England team, gang-raping a teenage girl in a London hotel and yet perversely allowing Jimmy Hill to carry on living. But surely that can't be the case. But Jimmy Hill qualified his statement. He said that in his opinion, calling a black man a nigger was no more offensive than calling him, Jimmy Hill, Chinny... because he had a big chin. I read that and thought, Call me a square from the past, but surely the word nigger is more offensive than the word Chinny? Because the word nigger comes with a whole weight of cultural and historical significance, that is not really there for the word Chinny. There are not people in this country standing for election now on the grounds that, People with big chins should be sent back to wherever they came from. Chinland, probably. I haven't done any research into it. There were not vast vast swathes of humanity historically enslaved on the grounds that they had big chins. If there had been, popular culture would be entirely different. There would not be a blues root underpinning all the late-20th-century popular music that you love if the Mississippi Delta had been populated by disenfranchised ex-slaves with big chins. Woke up this morning... Got a big chin. It's not that much of a problem, to be honest. I wont base an entire musical genre on it. You don't hear news reports saying, A man was beaten to death in Hull. The violence is thought to have been chin motivated. Although in Jimmy Hills case I'd be happy to see an exception made. Kill him! Kill Jimmy Hill! But kill him in an ironic way. Break in to the Natural History Museum, steal the jaw bone of a blue whale, the largest chin currently known to science, and beat Jimmy Hill to death with it, in an example of what sociologists are already calling chin-on-chin violence. But we shouldn't be surprised to find out that Jimmy Hill is evil and mad, because all people that are involved in the business of football or play football or go and support it or watch it on television or even know anything about it, are filthy, reactionary scum.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yeah blonde jokes ARE comparable, in fact the whole blonde hair on a woman = stupid is really annoying. Its misogyny doubled up for good measure
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is it still a double dose of misogyny when other women make the jokes?
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Hm, what about jokes about blond men? A lot fewer of them exist but still. Is that misandry?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Misandry is a myth remember. It's actually called "the worm that turned".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    CM Punk wrote: »
    Is it still a double dose of misogyny when other women make the jokes?

    women can be the worst mysogynists of all. Thats one of te sad things
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hm, what about jokes about blond men? A lot fewer of them exist but still. Is that misandry?

    i dont think ive ever heard one in my life
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    i dont think ive ever heard one in my life
    One I remember is something like "Why do some women have big bellybuttons?" "Because they like blond men."
    But that's beside the point really.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    Blonde jokes are more common than ginger jokes. Piss taking of gingers trends to be a but nastier. Never see kids getting bullied for being blonde. Saw plenty of kids with ginger hair getting some serious grief at school tho.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    When redheads are denied housing, jobs and a fair wage purely on the basis of their hair colour then I would have sympathy with the view of "racism". Until then most definately not.

    Being the butt of jokes is not the same.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    When redheads are denied housing, jobs and a fair wage purely on the basis of their hair colour then I would have sympathy with the view of "racism".

    Why? Even under those distressing circumstances Gingers are not a race and therefore it STILL won't be 'racism'.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    CM Punk wrote: »
    Why? Even under those distressing circumstances Gingers are not a race and therefore it STILL won't be 'racism'.

    Defining race can be a complicated, still I don't think ginger can be described as race despite the fact some ethnic groups are much more likely to have red had than others.

    However discrimination is discrimination, and things like kick a ginger day are evidence that gingerism isn't always lighthearted banter.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Defining race can be a complicated, still I don't think ginger can be described as race despite the fact some ethnic groups are much more likely to have red had than others.

    I agree with that however the "oooh you racist!!" brigade will try to shoehorn any kind of discrimination in to being a form of 'racism'.
    Skive wrote: »
    However discrimination is discrimination, and things like kick a ginger day are evidence that gingerism isn't always lighthearted banter.

    lol I just love this newly-invented word 'gingerism'. But other than that yes, I agree 100% with what you say.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    One I remember is something like "Why do some women have big bellybuttons?" "Because they like blond men."
    But that's beside the point really.

    I dont get it?
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    I dont get it?
    Would it help if I clarified that it means innies?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I still don't geddit :P
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    I still don't geddit :P
    Wrong hole. :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    CM Punk wrote: »
    Why? Even under those distressing circumstances Gingers are not a race and therefore it STILL won't be 'racism'.

    You might want to reconsider that answer, given the definition of "race" includes arbitary classification of humans based common characteristics and not just skin tone... so we could easily argue that hair tone and associated fair skin (for example) fall under this. Especially if those characteristics are used in a prejudicial manner such as denial of jobs, housing etc.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Wrong hole. :p

    Ohhhh! How rude :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Would it help if I clarified that it means innies?

    no. Is this a greek joke?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You might want to reconsider that answer, given the definition of "race" includes arbitary classification of humans based common characteristics and not just skin tone... so we could easily argue that hair tone and associated fair skin (for example) fall under this. Especially if those characteristics are used in a prejudicial manner such as denial of jobs, housing etc.

    You need to be careful not to dilute the term so much it becomes meaningless.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Everyone doo me a huge favour and watch this:
    It's a song by MIA called Born Free
    It's about ginger discrimination, i just love the ending :)

    http://vimeo.com/11219730
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    no. Is this a greek joke?
    Not specifically.
    Did my reply to Rachael not help either?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not specifically.
    Did my reply to Rachael not help either?

    Not hugely. I don't get it either...
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