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What unpopular opinions do you have?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think there is a large element of confirmation bias creeping in. Just saying.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Could you elaborate on that please?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and i went to the local comp as my mum didnt let me sit my 11+ and was harrassed and ridiculed constantly and occasionally beaten up because i was slightly alternative and arty and used words longer than 4 letters occasionally. I was scared to put my hand up in class as youd be called a boff and have your stuff nicked. I didnt have a tracksuit and I didnt want one. I had to pretend my clothes WERENT 2nd hand, as they were all "cant you afford a new one, ha ha ha" It was all about pretending you had money, whilst all were living on a council estate. Nearly ALL the popular kids were thick and had kids at 15/16 and made my life a fucking misery. I go back to that estate now and i still feel frightened. I hear them shout after their kids "come ere you little fucking cunt" I think its a fucking vile subsection in all honesty and the only way theyre ok to you, is if youre one of them, and skive I think youre naive about how nice and normal they are, because you just happen to be accepted as one of them, and its very easy to blame the ones they are actively horrible to as snobbish, and the ones WITH the problem. I was never any good at fitting in. I just wanted to be myself. Now youve got a bunch of middle class handwringers too who want to silence the ones who do have a problem with how theyve been treated and the social culture they belong to of not just low/no aspirations for their children, but actively holding them down and holding them back
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i understand what youre saying, but if youve never actually experienced it, and been in the thick of it, then .....

    you will obviously read what you want to read by my posts and jump to the conclusions that you WANT to have

    try going through my childhood
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    someone who doesnt learn from experience is a fool, and someone who hasnt got the ability to make predictions from past data is probably not a scientist.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is what I've seen. There's a crab bucket mentality. "If I can't have it neither can you". Trying hard to learn in school is rejected by pmost of society. The individual is dragged back. Crab bucket.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Suzy has explained exactly what I experienced coming from a poor background too (I'm still the only one in my family to have gone to uni, for starters).

    The uncomfortable truth about many chavs is that they are vermin. They're not vermin because they're poor, or because they're working class, or because they wear a bit too much sportswear. They're vermin because they are determined to drag everyone else into the gutter with them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think we also need to be careful not to patronise the poor and the working class.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They're vermin because they are determined to drag everyone else into the gutter with them.

    This
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is a very good example of why the world is and forever will be fucked up:

    http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/02/15/no-whites-allowed-tutoring-policy-rocks-colo-school-50701
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The uncomfortable truth about many chavs is that they are vermin. They're not vermin because they're poor, or because they're working class, or because they wear a bit too much sportswear. They're vermin because they are determined to drag everyone else into the gutter with them.

    There are people like this, but they are by no means all people who fit the chav stereotype, nor do the majority of people who fit the chav stereotype match the description you give. It's just a lazy way of judging people and putting them into boxes. Most of the "chavs" I know are actually skilled workers. How else would they be able to afford expensively modified cars?

    I've watched with quite a lot of interest the evolution of the chav stereotype. It was first starting when I was in university and everywhere seemed to have their own word for it. But it was purely a stereotype based on tastes in music, dress sense and choice of leisure activities. And yes, it was mainly a case of "let's laugh at this group behind their backs" but it really wasn't anything beyond that. But as soon as the newspapers got their hands on it, all of these undesirable elements were added to the stereotypes based purely on class prejudice. So now the chav stereotype is on benefits, lives on a council estate, smokes, drinks a particular brand of beer, is frequently violent, buys aggressive dogs and then abandons them, have untold numbers of unplanned kids and then split up, etc. Now all of these social problems are going to be more common in poorer communities, and so there will obviously be some crossover between people who fit the chav stereotype and people that behave in some of these ways, or have these problems. But I guess it's just easier for people to be able to point to a visual "problem group" that they can blame all of societies problems on. I know plenty of people who I would label a chav (actually, I refuse to use the word now, but I would've called them a townie back in about 2005) and I can only think of one that has spent any period of time on the dole (and he has severe family problems). As I said, most of them are actually skilled workers on decent salaries. They just also happen to like house music, modified cars and Sports Direct.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The uncomfortable truth about many chavs is that they are vermin. They're not vermin because they're poor, or because they're working class, or because they wear a bit too much sportswear. They're vermin because they are determined to drag everyone else into the gutter with them.

    Funny, IME the people who do the most to drag everyone else down usually wear suits and have a good education including degrees (often in law!)... I'm sure that describing them as "Tories" won't mean I'm being prejudiced ;)

    With regards your comment though, the vermin you describe come in many guises, wear may different styles, speak with differing accents, drink all sorts of drinks, some smoke, some take drugs etc. Chav, on the other hand, is a very specific image and *that* is the issue. It's why some people are now scared of any teenager, anyone wearing a hoodie etc.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I came from a strange mix of middle class and working class, and I too, was bullied at school often from the kids from the rough estate. And it wasn't gentle bullying.

    The problem is separating my experience from every single working class person. A hell of a lot of them work hard. A hell of a lot of them study, go to uni and get good jobs. Some of them don't make it through no lck of trying, and we call them chavs. An underclass.

    And we feel happy doing this because they don't dress the same or speak the same or behave the same as we do. We can ascribe to them all the negative connotations from what we personally experienced of people we put in the same bucket.

    That's what makes it de facto prejudicial language, and therefore lazy language. That doesn't mean you can't say it, and maybe it is more defensible than other prejudicial language. But the amount of 'chavs' I've met who were dead nice, ordinary people makes me reticent to throw around slurs.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Funny, IME the people who do the most to drag everyone else down usually wear suits and have a good education including degrees (often in law!)... I'm sure that describing them as "Tories" won't mean I'm being prejudiced ;)
    I fear you have confused "dragging down to their level" with "not caring who you trample to get to the top"
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Funny, IME the people who do the most to drag everyone else down usually wear suits and have a good education including degrees (often in law!)... I'm sure that describing them as "Tories" won't mean I'm being prejudiced ;)

    I know plenty of really decent tory voters. It's the tory government that is fucked because it represents the private interests of a minority. Then again, so does labour.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't agree with the vigilante sharing of photos of robert thomspon and john venables. Yes what they did was disgusting, but spreading hate isn't going to fix anything.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    British people that use pointless Americanisms (such as 'cell phone' and 'chips' instead of crisps) probably have no idea of how fucking stupid they sound.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Cell phone is not a pointless Americanism, it's a descriptive fact. The area covered around a transmitter/receiver are called cells, as they are in this country in the industry.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I like to call my mobile my cellphonetelephone when I want to be fancy. Though I do admit I call it my mobile most of the time.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    RubberSkin wrote: »
    Cell phone is not a pointless Americanism, it's a descriptive fact. The area covered around a transmitter/receiver are called cells, as they are in this country in the industry.

    It's pointless because we have the perfectly appropriate descriptive of 'mobile phone'. It is a mobile device so there is no need to use an Americanism.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    By Jingo I bet you do not use any Americanisms in your every-day vocabulary!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I probably do. I don't use any pointless ones though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Funny, IME the people who do the most to drag everyone else down usually wear suits and have a good education including degrees (often in law!)... I'm sure that describing them as "Tories" won't mean I'm being prejudiced ;)

    :lol:

    I'd never trust anyone in a suit. So I never wear them ;)
    With regards your comment though, the vermin you describe come in many guises, wear may different styles, speak with differing accents, drink all sorts of drinks, some smoke, some take drugs etc. Chav, on the other hand, is a very specific image and *that* is the issue. It's why some people are now scared of any teenager, anyone wearing a hoodie etc.

    In most towns you'll see the same sort of person hanging around on street corners; they're bright orange, in velour sportswear, swearing. The girls will have a baby in tow, usually with a Greggs sausage roll, the men will be swigging from a tin of something. There are regional variations but we're mostly talking about the same type of person.

    As for why people are frightened of anyone dressed like that, partially I think it is experience. I've been called a cunt by these people for asking them to stop smoking on the bus, or to stop swearing when I'm with sodbaby. When you get that sort of reaction it is no wonder that people don't want to be involved with them.

    But the clothes we wear show others what social groups we belong to, or what social groups we aspire to belong to. Clothes are tribal, no matter what style you choose to go for. People who choose to dress in fake tan and tracksuits are telling us what group of people they wish to be associated with, just as people who dress head to toe in Jack Wills are telling us what group they want to be associated with. You are aware of the stereotypes before you get dressed in a morning.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That explains why I get grouped with the 'homeless bum' group then Arctic ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    *Grabs popcorn, pulls up a seat, gets comfy...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Think I'll run a book on how long before the 'B' word gets thrown about.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In fairness quite a lot of what you've posted I'm pretty much against but I accept there is room for all kinds of views in society today. However there are some (many?) on here who will deem it their civic duty to rip you a new one...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ummmm....ok I think I'll leave you to it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is a difference between equal rights for gay people and stupid views.
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