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FAO: Londoners - Tube Strike Tomorrow

Not happy with £40k to drive a fucking train in a straight line, those fuckers at the RMT are holding a Tube-wide strike tomorrow (Tuesday 9th) starting at 7pm lasting for 24 hours.

Which is going to fuck up my day no end.

Just so no-one gets caught without a way home.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just got a text from TFL. I read on the website:
    TFL wrote:
    There will be a significant impact on Tube services and they will not return to normal until Friday morning 12 June, unless the strike is resolved.
    Is it definitely only 24 hours?

    Fuckers.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    no, its 48 hrs not 24
  • JsTJsT TheSite Graduate Posts: 18,267 Skive's The Limit
    Last minute talks to end the strike have broken down officially. I understand the RMT are 'willing to talk' so the strike could be cut short but at this stage it is likely to close the tube network from around 7pm tomorrow right through until Friday morning.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fucking dick heads.

    Hmmm luckily we can expense a taxi :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fuckers, how am i going to get to work....














    oh wait.. I dont live in london, woot :) hahaha people, seriously though, they get 40k to drive a train, pfft i want them to build a tube on arran.
  • JsTJsT TheSite Graduate Posts: 18,267 Skive's The Limit
    They are very well paid considering they earn £40,111 for a 35 hour week, driving no more than 40 mph in tunnels all day, then again there are responsbilities etc involved in the job and its certainly not one I would want to do. They are however paid large amounts more than mainline drivers doing longer days, more hours, faster speeds, older trains and more responsibilities.

    The main basis of the strike involves pay (TfL proposing inflation linked pay) and redundancies linked to safety critical roles.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JsT wrote: »
    redundancies linked to safety critical roles.
    Is that the thing about Victoria trains? I got the lowdown on that issue from a driver on the Piccadilly line. Apparently a Victoria line driver was sacked because he opened the right-side doors when the platform was on the left side. The union's complaint was that it was not the driver's fault, since the Victoria trains don't have the same safety measures to prevent wrong-side door opening that other lines have. However apparently in order to open the doors on the right side on Victoria trains, the driver must reach behind on their right to activate the doors. Not something that can easily be done by mistake! :chin:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah it's 48 hours, not 24, sorry.

    Absolute bunch of fuckers. They were offered 1.5% and rejected it as they're holding out for 5%. At a time when many, many people are struggling to hold down jobs, this really is fucking out of order.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So they're not happy with getting £40k a year to take the cattle trucks from one side of London to another? There is a simple solution - piss off and let someone else do it. There's a recession on, and rather a lot of people looking for work.
  • JsTJsT TheSite Graduate Posts: 18,267 Skive's The Limit
    Is that the thing about Victoria trains? I got the lowdown on that issue from a driver on the Piccadilly line. Apparently a Victoria line driver was sacked because he opened the right-side doors when the platform was on the left side. The union's complaint was that it was not the driver's fault, since the Victoria trains don't have the same safety measures to prevent wrong-side door opening that other lines have. However apparently in order to open the doors on the right side on Victoria trains, the driver must reach behind on their right to activate the doors. Not something that can easily be done by mistake! :chin:


    I couldn't comment to be honest, I don't tend to know an awful lot about the Underground. On the mainline it is more difficult to do but it has been known to happen. I imagine its possibly if the driver has gone into 'robot' mode and simply not double checked before opening the doors.
    The main issues I understand are to do with cutting staffing levels on stations, particularly busy Z1/2 stations which are deep Underground. Some believe that LU would rather replace staff with 'help points'.
    Yeah it's 48 hours, not 24, sorry.

    Absolute bunch of fuckers. They were offered 1.5% and rejected it as they're holding out for 5%. At a time when many, many people are struggling to hold down jobs, this really is fucking out of order.

    I think the main issues are linked to the possibility of pay cuts in the future and the fact the management are rumoured to have given themselves a nice raise.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This started with a driver being sacked for gross misconduct. Opening the wrong doors on a train is gross misconduct. The drivers don't see it this way and consider sacking someone for gross misconduct to be 'bullying'. After all, opening the doors on the wrong side is just a tiny mistake that didn't put any lives at risk at all :rolleyes:

    It's escalated from there.

    I don't think 5% is all that excessive a demand, inflation (excluding housing costs) is still running at over 4%. My union are kicking off about our pay negotiations so it would be hypocritical of me to criticise too loudly. But I hate the RMT and would love to see Bob Crow pass away painfully in his sleep.
  • JsTJsT TheSite Graduate Posts: 18,267 Skive's The Limit
    Kermit wrote: »
    This started with a driver being sacked for gross misconduct. Opening the wrong doors on a train is gross misconduct. The drivers don't see it this way and consider sacking someone for gross misconduct to be 'bullying'. After all, opening the doors on the wrong side is just a tiny mistake that didn't put any lives at risk at all :rolleyes:

    Its not gross misconduct on the mainline........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If it isn't, it should be.

    Although the worst I've seen on the mainline was [insert intercity TOC here] setting a train off with all the doors still open.
  • JsTJsT TheSite Graduate Posts: 18,267 Skive's The Limit
    That happened twice within 3 weeks recently both at the same major North east station.

    In the mainlines case they operate a license based points system rather than 'if you make a mistake you're out'. I recall a recent incident involving the wrong number of doors being opened in SDO (selective door opening). The guard concerned recieved some hefty points on their 'license' and a few select words.

    Once you reach your allocated points you are obviously removed from duties and have your safety certificates ripped up and then given options of other jobs rather than just being booted out on the street.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's very counterproductive to operate a one strike and you're out policy for staff. Anyone can make a mistake and the control systems should be designed to prevent them from happening rather than sacking the person unfortunate to make the mistake.

    I work in an industry where we're not 'allowed' to make mistakes and if they happen we're required to file reports that go through certain procedures. The goal is to find out how to prevent things from happening again, not finding somebody to blame.

    Where the work you do can put lives at risk, it is essential for staff to feel safe from being prosecuted if something goes wrong. I work with individuals that were prosecuted for mistakes and they're the most paranoid and nervewrecked people I work with. I doubt I'd be able to do my job safely if this was still common practice to hound employees and take them to court or sack them no questions asked.
    It's enough punishment to know full well you have or could have killed people. No one I work with would risk lives on purpose. I doubt it's different for the drivers.

    So I do understand if the union is not turning a blind eye to the employee getting sacked.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jaloux wrote: »
    It's very counterproductive to operate a one strike and you're out policy for staff. Anyone can make a mistake

    Yet we can jail people for eight years for 'death by dangerous driving' and can even jail them for 'death by careless driving' now.

    Whilst I generally agree with your sentiments, some mistakes are so severe that a dismissal for gross misconduct is the only reasonable course of action.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Funny how all sorts of people quickly abandon any pretence of caring for workers' wellbeing and rights when the strike in question might cause a temporary annoyance to their daily lives...

    Congratulations are due to the Daily Mail group I guess, because their decades-long campaign of vilification against tube drivers has certainly appeared to have worked.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    Yet we can jail people for eight years for 'death by dangerous driving' and can even jail them for 'death by careless driving' now.

    Whilst I generally agree with your sentiments, some mistakes are so severe that a dismissal for gross misconduct is the only reasonable course of action.


    Yet you are always going to need to research what happened and why it happened.

    In some cases it's logical to put people on a temporary leave if they've made a big mistake but sacking them straight away is questionable. How does sacking one person fix the problem or prevent it from happening again?

    I know of cases where dangerous mistakes were made, the people involved kept their jobs but it was decided to change how things are done so it couldn't happen again.

    I however fully agree that in some cases you might be faced with gross misconduct and it's blatantly the individual at fault. I know if I showed up drunk or severely hungover at my job I'd get sent home with no guarantee of being allowed to return.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Isn't it curious how in certain jobs (say, those boys in blue) causing an innocent person's death by monumentally fucking up doesn't even get you fired, but in others making a mistake potentially dangerous but that resulted in no injuries does?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    Whilst I generally agree with your sentiments, some mistakes are so severe that a dismissal for gross misconduct is the only reasonable course of action.
    Agreed - I wouldn't want the idiot who opened the wrong doors or moved a train before closing the doors to be driving anything I was on. Some mistakes are unacceptable.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Isn't it curious how in certain jobs (say, those boys in blue) causing an innocent person's death by monumentally fucking up doesn't even get you fired, but in others making a mistake potentially dangerous but that resulted in no injuries does?

    Well it would depend on the circumstances. Split second decisions in dangerous circumstances aren't the same as routine operations where you're not concentrating. Same as I wouldn't want to prosecute a surgeon who when someone is in cardiac arrest makes the wrong call. I would if he went in to remove an ingrowing toe-nail didn't read his notes properly and amputates the leg.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Isn't it curious how in certain jobs (say, those boys in blue) causing an innocent person's death by monumentally fucking up doesn't even get you fired, but in others making a mistake potentially dangerous but that resulted in no injuries does?

    That there were no injuries is neither here nor there. The train could have been packed and someone could quite easily have fallen and got 40,000V through them.

    Both are gross misconduct, and both deserved sacking.
  • JsTJsT TheSite Graduate Posts: 18,267 Skive's The Limit
    In the Victoria line loading gauge it'd be hard for someone to properly fall out but that is beside the point.

    The RMT and LU had an agreement that should a member of staff be unsuitable to work front line duties then they would be offered alternative work and further training. In this case that agreed policy appears not to have been followed. The same policy applies to almost all TOC's and is one that most companies are happy to follow.
    Jaloux wrote: »
    I work in an industry where we're not 'allowed' to make mistakes and if they happen we're required to file reports that go through certain procedures. The goal is to find out how to prevent things from happening again, not finding somebody to blame.

    Where the work you do can put lives at risk, it is essential for staff to feel safe from being prosecuted if something goes wrong. I work with individuals that were prosecuted for mistakes and they're the most paranoid and nervewrecked people I work with. I doubt I'd be able to do my job safely if this was still common practice to hound employees and take them to court or sack them no questions asked.
    It's enough punishment to know full well you have or could have killed people. No one I work with would risk lives on purpose. I doubt it's different for the drivers.

    So I do understand if the union is not turning a blind eye to the employee getting sacked.

    Its the same on the railways. Clearly the RAIB don't consider it a huge massive dangerous incident as they haven't decided to investigate it.

    Mistakes are of course rare but when working 9½hr shifts underground in complete darkness with many hundreds of stops in a shift there is the small potential for errors.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is the northern line running?

    The TfL website says it is

    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravelnews/realtime/tube/default.html
  • JsTJsT TheSite Graduate Posts: 18,267 Skive's The Limit
    The way public transport strikes are coordinated means that USUALLY staff simply won't book on to work, those on shfit when the strike starts will often finish their shift as usual. Hence why the strike will finish at 7pm on Thursday but services won't restart to Friday.

    I notice a few other its and pieces still running (most of the Piccadilly line for example) so its not unfeasible that they are still going.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So will the northern line be running tomorow?

    Couldnt give a toss about the other lines, aslong as the northern line is working. :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well it would depend on the circumstances. Split second decisions in dangerous circumstances aren't the same as routine operations where you're not concentrating.
    True. Yet there are cases of the latter involving policemen but still nobody will get fired.
  • JsTJsT TheSite Graduate Posts: 18,267 Skive's The Limit
    Calvin wrote: »
    So will the northern line be running tomorow?

    No. Once everyone who was working before 7pm finishes their shift the network will close down.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This could not come at a worse time. I have NO sympathy.
    Doing the hardest exams of my life, on the days they are striking, whilst they decide to complain about a 40.000 grand job.
    Fucking assholes.

    And I don't get it, why does the TFL website say some places are still running and some are suspended? URGH!
  • JsTJsT TheSite Graduate Posts: 18,267 Skive's The Limit
    Dear Wendy wrote: »

    And I don't get it, why does the TFL website say some places are still running and some are suspended? URGH!


    I tried to explain that above.
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