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Mortgages question

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    g_angel wrote: »
    I'm not sure you understand the concept of offshore banking - all the big banks offer this option. It's not just some dodgy tax-evasion thing :yeees:

    No, I am fully aware of what offshore banking is all about. Using a foreign bank because you are working in a foreign country and paid in a foreign country is one thing.

    If there weren't the advantages of tax evasion, why on earth would anyone do it? The savings rates themselves don't tend to be that much better.

    Just because I think tax avoidance is immoral doesn't mean that I am stupid.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    No, I am fully aware of what offshore banking is all about. Using a foreign bank because you are working in a foreign country and paid in a foreign country is one thing.

    If there weren't the advantages of tax evasion, why on earth would anyone do it? The savings rates themselves don't tend to be that much better.

    Just because I think tax avoidance is immoral doesn't mean that I am stupid.

    ... and just who was calling you stupid? :yeees:

    I know my conscience is clear as my accounts are perfectly legal. Ricardo's finances I am sure are within any guidelines set out.

    Tax evasion is a pretty strong term to use if the person you are accusing is essentially doing nothing wrong in the eyes of the law. Until we are actually aware of the terms and conditions of Ricardo's expense dispensations, i'd lay off that avenue mate. ETA - not that he has to show us anyway as it's none of our fucking business!

    It doesn't sound like it is much different to what I am doing, and yet because I am not using an offshore service.................?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have to agree actually, "Tax evasion" is actually illegal activities and not paying tax via underhand means..

    These people are just using the tools and limits set by our goverment, so maybe you should point the blame somewhere else..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    g_angel wrote: »
    Tax evasion is a pretty strong term to use if the person you are accusing is essentially doing nothing wrong in the eyes of the law.

    I don't think tax evasion is too strong a word to use for people who use offshore banking services to avoid paying their tax. Especially when the prevailing attitude of the evader is "screw the poor", as it so evidently the case of Ricardo, who really does put the banker into merchant banker.

    If they want to keep their money in another country to avoid paying UK tax, then they should stay in that country. They're not wanted here.

    Just because the law allows it doesn't mean the action is ethical. The actions of most bank staff most of the time is downright disgusting IMHO, and if I had my way they'd be put in prison.

    The same would go for people creating expenses out of thin air and deducting them from their "profits" to lower their tax bill.

    Other than semantics, I don't believe there to be a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. The Government are the rich and the rich are the Government, after all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    I don't think tax evasion is too strong a word to use for people who use offshore banking services to avoid paying their tax. Especially when the prevailing attitude of the evader is "screw the poor", as it so evidently the case of Ricardo, who really does put the banker into merchant banker.

    If they want to keep their money in another country to avoid paying UK tax, then they should stay in that country. They're not wanted here.

    As already stated, he's still paying a fair whack of tax, hence hardly evasion.
    The actions of most bank staff most of the time is downright disgusting IMHO, and if I had my way they'd be put in prison.

    Yet another balanced and fair opinion there... :yeees: :rolleyes: I've got plenty of friends working in banks (from on the counters up to retired senior management of HSBC), and if you're deciding to tar them all, or even most, with the same brush as a few bad eggs, then you're a fool.
    The same would go for people creating expenses out of thin air and deducting them from their "profits" to lower their tax bill.

    It's a bit difficult to magic up proper receipts for most things.
    Other than semantics, I don't believe there to be a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. The Government are the rich and the rich are the Government, after all.

    C'est la vie. We're starting to go round in circles again.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i know if i was taking home £5k a month and paying next to no tax i'd have better things to do than sit on a message board aimed at young people looking for advice arguing about it.

    the truth of the matter is, sugar came on here asking advice on mortgages and its been turned into something else.

    offshore banking and tax evasion (i dont think this is too strong either) is not needed to be discussed here really, start a new thread on it.

    or go and spunk some money on strippers down in soho, followed by a pint of shandy :wave:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    g_angel wrote: »
    As already stated, he's still paying a fair whack of tax, hence hardly evasion.

    Like hell he is.

    If you believe his posts he earns 4 times what I do, yet pays an extra £200 in tax each month.

    Regardless of whether it's legal or not, that is very much avoiding paying your due.
    Yet another balanced and fair opinion there... :yeees: :rolleyes: I've got plenty of friends working in banks (from on the counters up to retired senior management of HSBC), and if you're deciding to tar them all, or even most, with the same brush as a few bad eggs, then you're a fool.

    If it's a few bad eggs then I must be really really bloody unlucky every day at work, put it that way.

    The management are scum for creating a financial system that exploits and victimises the poorest and most vulnerable people. If you think charging someone on JSA of £59 per week £50 in bank charges for going a few pence overdrawn is ethical and fair then you need your head seeing to.

    The middle managers are scum for not overriding the senior policy, and the helpline staff, cashiers and "money advisers" are scum for relying on the computer saying no rather than lifting a finger to help those who need help the most.

    Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I think people should look after each other a lot more. If you have brains, use them to aid not exploit others; if you have money, use it to help and assist those without it, rather than sending it all to Bermuda and saying that the poor can go swivel.

    People who play with their money to avoid paying their fair share are filth. There really is no other word to describe them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    Like hell he is.

    If you believe his posts he earns 4 times what I do, yet pays an extra £200 in tax each month.

    Regardless of whether it's legal or not, that is very much avoiding paying your due.

    Well, you're gonna have a minor heart attack when you hear I pay less tax than he does, and it's all perfectly, 100% above board. ... and in the UK. I don't feel I am avoiding paying my due in the slightest, and I am certainly not evading my tax.

    If it's a few bad eggs then I must be really really bloody unlucky every day at work, put it that way.

    The management are scum for creating a financial system that exploits and victimises the poorest and most vulnerable people. If you think charging someone on JSA of £59 per week £50 in bank charges for going a few pence overdrawn is ethical and fair then you need your head seeing to.

    The middle managers are scum for not overriding the senior policy, and the helpline staff, cashiers and "money advisers" are scum for relying on the computer saying no rather than lifting a finger to help those who need help the most.

    Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I think people should look after each other a lot more. If you have brains, use them to aid not exploit others; if you have money, use it to help and assist those without it, rather than sending it all to Bermuda and saying that the poor can go swivel.

    People who play with their money to avoid paying their fair share are filth. There really is no other word to describe them.

    When it comes to it, the rules are laid down by a tiny, tiny minority at the top, and there is very little leeway for the people at the bottom to actually do anything. I worked for Abbey National many years ago, and it literally was 'follow the script'. People in an organisation like a bank simply cannot be autonomous, even at management level! There is the problem, and hence you label everybody 'scum'. Fair. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    koe_182 wrote: »
    i know if i was taking home £5k a month and paying next to no tax i'd have better things to do than sit on a message board aimed at young people looking for advice arguing about it.

    the truth of the matter is, sugar came on here asking advice on mortgages and its been turned into something else.

    offshore banking and tax evasion (i dont think this is too strong either) is not needed to be discussed here really, start a new thread on it.

    or go and spunk some money on strippers down in soho, followed by a pint of shandy :wave:

    :lol:

    I'm from Bradford, if that was some silly reference to being a shandy drinking Southerner, and I don't think I've ever had a shandy in my life! :p In fact, randomly, Kermit and I went to the same school...

    It has indeed turned into something else, which is just what happens on here. Ah well.

    Regarding having something better to do, well, I'm having a night in (even people with money do that, you know) and unfortunately, as many people on here will agree, once you get embroiled in a discussion, it's quite hard to leave it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't get the implication that because someone has x amount of money they have better things to do.. I enjoy surfing the net and forums and I would do it no matter how much I had ..

    I think it's plain to see why people usually don't declare their wealth or status online, it becomes just like in real life with an upwards alienation based on networth alone
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't get the implication that because someone has x amount of money they have better things to do.. I enjoy surfing the net and forums and I would do it no matter how much I had ..

    I think it's plain to see why people usually don't declare their wealth or status online, it becomes just like in real life with an upwards alienation based on networth alone

    :yes:

    So many people I've hung around with through the last few years have ended up being so off with me once they find out what I do - and it's them that ask how much I earn. I'm not going to lie to them, and also I'm not the one to bring it up. Everything was cool, and then one person asks 'the question', and all of a sudden, I am left out of invites out etc as apparently I won't fit in. :( Was fine for the months prior to this. :confused: :rolleyes: In general, I hate talking about my job with people and so just brush over it when face to face. The people that are left, are my friends as shit like that doesn't matter.

    ETA - and too fucking right I enjoy just laying around surfing the net! :) I, personally, rarely do the 'swanky' (overpriced) City bars etc as I just don't like the atmosphere. I was due to be seeing a mate DJing at The Cross (Kings Cross) tonight (much more my thing), but with my first chance to lay in bed late in the morning in a few weeks, I'm taking the chilled and easy option.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    g_angel wrote: »
    Well, you're gonna have a minor heart attack when you hear I pay less tax than he does, and it's all perfectly, 100% above board. ... and in the UK.

    It's the joy of being self-employed, I know.

    Every tax dodge going is open to the rich self-employed, always has been, it's just us that are stuck on PAYE that have to pay for the selfishness and greed of the richest.

    And strangely enough, HMRC never go after these people. They always bankrupt the old lady who forgot that her state retirement pension is taxable income.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with people earning oodles of money, far from it, but I think those who are blessed with the intelligence and desire to get into top-paying jobs really do owe it to everyone else to pay their share. Sadly, the more money someone has, the less charitable they are.

    I also don't understand why people get upset at people who earn lots of money. One of the wife's childhood friends is a very successful bank graduate (scum for it, btw;)) and she earns a fortune; hasn't changed her and hasn't changed our relationship with her. Even if she does have a nicer car than me, bitch:p
    When it comes to it, the rules are laid down by a tiny, tiny minority at the top...People in an organisation like a bank simply cannot be autonomous, even at management level! There is the problem, and hence you label everybody 'scum'. Fair. :rolleyes:

    I don't believe that companies are physical entities in their own rights. They behave as they do because the people running them make them behave like that. All employees of companies are partially responsible for how their company operates. "Just following orders" has never been a defence, and never will be.

    Of course, the culpability is centred towards the senior management. I'd personally hang the fuckers, but then I'm kind and tolerant like that.

    I don't think Ricardo should leave here just because he's got money; hell, I love reading his posts because they're hilarious. I think it's sad when people equate money with intelligence like he does, but it's him that's isolated not us.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't get the implication that because someone has x amount of money they have better things to do.. I enjoy surfing the net and forums and I would do it no matter how much I had ..

    I think it's plain to see why people usually don't declare their wealth or status online, it becomes just like in real life with an upwards alienation based on networth alone

    i have no problem with people earning a hell of a lot more money than me or even alienate people who do, especially in real life, i have constant contact at work with people who earn more in a month than i do in a year, i have a problem with people who cant fathom that they are actually quite privaledged and doing well for themselves and saying things about what people spend their money on and they save 75% of their wage a month, if i saved 75% of my wage a month half of my bills wouldnt get paid.

    ETA: about not having better things to do then fine, whatever floats your boat. if i had more money i know i'd rather spend my friday night going out for dinner and drinks with my good lady rather than sat on here with some crap on the tv in the background
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    It's the joy of being self-employed, I know.

    Every tax dodge going is open to the rich self-employed, always has been, it's just us that are stuck on PAYE that have to pay for the selfishness and greed of the richest.

    Glad this has calmed down a bit :)

    You'd be surprised how many self employed aren't rich at all - the 'benefits' are available to all, but yes, if you are on a PAYE scheme you are a bit stuck in this sense.
    And strangely enough, HMRC never go after these people. They always bankrupt the old lady who forgot that her state retirement pension is taxable income.

    They do, but it seems like they don't as it's never reported as it's not shocking enough to be news. You have to keep your nose clean because if you DO get caught you're utterly, utterly stuffed. A friend of mine was caught out for £20k of, erm, underpaid taxes. Idiot.
    I don't think there is anything wrong with people earning oodles of money, far from it, but I think those who are blessed with the intelligence and desire to get into top-paying jobs really do owe it to everyone else to pay their share. Sadly, the more money someone has, the less charitable they are.

    Aye, in my own personal defence, I do contribute to numerous charities and on a smaller note, (for example) never buy a Big Issue, but instead just give them some money instead. I certainly don't mind getting my hand in my pocket in that sense. Paying my mum's mortgage, for her holidays etc as well as she is too ill to work is one other little thing I do (although the mortgage is now paid off).
    I also don't understand why people get upset at people who earn lots of money. One of the wife's childhood friends is a very successful bank graduate (scum for it, btw;)) and she earns a fortune; hasn't changed her and hasn't changed our relationship with her. Even if she does have a nicer car than me, bitch:p

    :lol::D But yeah, it has been pretty upsetting at times when a group of people that were your friends now feel you don't fit in simply down to what you earn. Frustrating as hell, but it just proved they were not really my friends - so in the long run, I'm well shut.
    I don't believe that companies are physical entities in their own rights. They behave as they do because the people running them make them behave like that. All employees of companies are partially responsible for how their company operates. "Just following orders" has never been a defence, and never will be.

    Of course, the culpability is centred towards the senior management. I'd personally hang the fuckers, but then I'm kind and tolerant like that.

    Aye, if you have bad senior management, unfortunately it often rubs off on the ranks below. Very unhealthy, but it happens. A lot.
    I don't think Ricardo should leave here just because he's got money; hell, I love reading his posts because they're hilarious. I think it's sad when people equate money with intelligence like he does, but it's him that's isolated not us.

    Money certainly doesn't equal intelligence in my eyes, that's for sure! ;) Some of the toffs around here are thick as two short planks and just don't have a grip on reality.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    koe_182 wrote: »
    i have no problem with people earning a hell of a lot more money than me or even alienate people who do, especially in real life, i have constant contact at work with people who earn more in a month than i do in a year, i have a problem with people who cant fathom that they are actually quite privaledged and doing well for themselves and saying things about what people spend their money on and they save 75% of their wage a month, if i saved 75% of my wage a month half of my bills wouldnt get paid.

    I *wish* I could save that much of my wage. Unfortunately in my profession, I am between contracts a lot. It's just the nature of the job, but I've had 6.5 months off out of the last 12. I'm fairly broke right now, and so it's not all roses. I also made some bad decisions financially in the past which has left me with some (quite shocking) debt which I am working to pay off. My fault, my problem - but I'm not complaining.
    if i had more money i know i'd rather spend my friday night going out for dinner and drinks with my good lady rather than sat on here with some crap on the tv in the background

    You know what though, sometimes it's nice to have a night in on the weekend. I tend to see the girls I am dating through the week so I have the weekend free to do what I want (which could indeed be spend time with a lady). As mentioned, I was due to be out clubbing, but I've worked 3 weeks without a proper day off and so the thought of getting to bed at 6am (if at all) was just not as appealing as a good feed, general cabbaging in the lounge and just expelling as little energy as possible. At the moment, this is bliss - even if I am blathering away on this. :lol:
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