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Is this sexist?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Recently The University of York at the freshers fair, gave out blue and pink bags. In the blue ones, a copy of FHM, chocolate and a tin of beans. In the pink, leg cream, a small tin of beans and deodorant.
There was a big uproar about the inherit sexism in this, as (alledgedly) it reinforced gender stereotypes, and according to one person, may be a deliberate attempt to 'keep women downtrodden'. I thought it was a bit hyperbole-ic, but I can see the general point.
However, both bags were available for both sexes, and neither said 'boy' or 'girl', although obviously they were designed as such. The main criticism, except the few boys being told off for reading FHM which is now classed as pornographic it seems, is the beans. The mens bag has a large tin, the womens a small tin.
Personally, I see the idea as a bit of fun, and it's gone a bit awry. However, there is now going to be a vote at uni in which a new committee of one woman's officer, one lgbt officer and a labour party candidate (this one - http://www.yorklabour.org.uk/people/gracefletcherhall.php) will have the say on whether something is sexist or not, as they have been unable to decide whether what happened was sexist or not.
To be honest, everyone I've spoken to really doesn't give a crap about pink and blue bags, it does seem like a political point for people to argue about, but are we all just ignorant and is there a legitimate complaint?
I'll be voting against the committee being able to vote what's sexist because I think it should be more than three people, and a more representative group as well. That's like making new labour laws and getting three heads of different labour unions to write them. 'You can't work more than 3 hour weeks, and the minimum wage is £150 per hour, and you need 50 weeks holiday a year'.
There was a big uproar about the inherit sexism in this, as (alledgedly) it reinforced gender stereotypes, and according to one person, may be a deliberate attempt to 'keep women downtrodden'. I thought it was a bit hyperbole-ic, but I can see the general point.
However, both bags were available for both sexes, and neither said 'boy' or 'girl', although obviously they were designed as such. The main criticism, except the few boys being told off for reading FHM which is now classed as pornographic it seems, is the beans. The mens bag has a large tin, the womens a small tin.
Personally, I see the idea as a bit of fun, and it's gone a bit awry. However, there is now going to be a vote at uni in which a new committee of one woman's officer, one lgbt officer and a labour party candidate (this one - http://www.yorklabour.org.uk/people/gracefletcherhall.php) will have the say on whether something is sexist or not, as they have been unable to decide whether what happened was sexist or not.
To be honest, everyone I've spoken to really doesn't give a crap about pink and blue bags, it does seem like a political point for people to argue about, but are we all just ignorant and is there a legitimate complaint?
I'll be voting against the committee being able to vote what's sexist because I think it should be more than three people, and a more representative group as well. That's like making new labour laws and getting three heads of different labour unions to write them. 'You can't work more than 3 hour weeks, and the minimum wage is £150 per hour, and you need 50 weeks holiday a year'.
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Comments
I think it depends on sexism. We have pre-conceived ideas about what men and women want due to what society tells us. I do believe that a lot of these ideas are damaging to both men and women (and tbh am not gonna list them for fear of derailing the entire thread), I also felt a tiny tiny bit insulted that the boys had a magazine which sexualises women and that we had a bag which basically says we bleed from our minge and stuff our face with chocolate (not the best bag for a vegan who uses mooncups innit lol!).
So you could argue that our goody bags are a reflection of how society objectifies women...
At the same time, if you want to reach the greatest amount of people then you have to keep in mind that most people fit within the heteronormative gender binary. You'd be wasting bags if you made something that suited everybody.
*Sorry for confusing post... My brain is pickled*
Students politics is like playing 'Mummy's and Daddys' - fun when you're three, but of no use or interest when you hit puberty.
But very few of us get involved so it's not representitive anyway.
They got them free somehow. Can't remember the article (was in the uni tabloid *spit* which goes on about university corruption all the bloody time). Basically a company gave the SU the stuff for free which I assume got to pimp themselves a bit in return.
I agree with you here, but the way I see it is, the freshers fair is just an excuse to pickup as much crap as possible, and as many freebies. It's a bit of a laugh and I was a bit surprised people were taking the contents of the free giveaways so seriously.
What annoyed me more was private companies who pay the SU get the best spots, and get to flout all the rules, so the real student socs get shafted. We were in the corner next to the nightclubs stand who had women in stilts and underwear, incredibly noisy music (they had the biggest speakers, ever, like bigger than two people - where most socs just get one exam table!!) and had jugglers and all sorts.
:mad:
Sexism is not just about active discrimination of women, it's also about stereotyping.
I mean you wouldn't give a black person basketball boots because they're black and you assume they love basketball do you>
Of course. University student unions get a shitload of funding from nightclubs, advertising, international students and so on...
It's no more sexist than the gift I got at a charity ball not so long ago; I got shaving cream and aftershave, and the boss got eyeliner.
This kind of comment whether joke / sarcasm or whatever really does piss me off. It's used in almost every discussion about sexism and is not constructive at all.
Mmmm yes, would a racist comment be acceptable in a race thread? Or a homophobic one in a gay thread?
Oh please, get over it people FFS
Be outraged about women getting paid less than men, complain about how some people actually hold view like Coathanger's comment, but don't lose a sense of humour at what was so fucking obviously a joke.
As for the OP. No it wasn't sexist. This would have been sexist if nothing had been given to one gender. The sooner that people wake up to the fact that men and women - in general - have different likes and dislikes ,and accept that actually we are different, the better.
We are not identikit model of each other.
TBH You should be more outraged about the fact that FHM was given to the men because of it's take on females...
What if it were a racist joke?
What if it was a cheese sandwich?
Quote of the week
Aye, it was a joke, and it did make me laugh, but does it being a joke excuse the sentiment behind it?
Do a search on sexism.
Every single thread on thesite.org ever has a joke like that. Maybe once, it might be funny. 'Lol woman get back to the kitchen'. Whatever. But it's brought up so often it pisses me off. I wasn't having a go at CptCoatHanger, but the sarcastic comments. Which Kermit followed up on with
Again, not getting at Kermit, but why is everything really sarcastic in a sexism thread? I didn't think the original incident was particularly sexist, but I still don't see the whole issue of sexism as a bit of a joke.
I would be very surprised if there was any real sentiment behind it.
I thought that it was very much meant in a post modern irony way...
In those same threads you will find people over reacting and getting on their high horses over very littel. At the same time the real problems faced through sexism are ignored or glossed over.
Fine, feel free to get het up over a few gifts and a naff joke. I'm more concerned about equal pay/rights etc
I'm very skeptical about "post modern irony", tbh. I agree with Victoria Wood- most people who make jokes like that (like Gervais does) really actually mean what they say.
Especially given the poster's arguments about, say, rape convictions.
Certainly if the same "irony" was used about, say, a black man the outcome would be very different. And yes, it wasn't, but it's the same thing.
I agree, though, I'm far more angry about the rape conviction rate, the shocking pay gap, and general inequality rather than mincing on about a poor joke.
Even in this day and age it is very difficult for anyone to give a clearcut definition of when an act becomes sexist or racist, it's dualism at it's bluntest, everything is in shades of grey. Someone will be offended that they were described as 'female' or 'black' or 'tall'. But a great many won't be offended even if they're subjected to fairly prejudiced views.
The jokes aren't offensive in a sexist way, but I think they do pop up a lot (in a post modernist way, whatever that means - I know they're supposed to be ironic) and they do get on my nerves personally (and it's a public messageboard, so I'm allowed to say that
Sorry, but tha just isn't true. Do you really want me to quote the places where people like Aladdin and I have used post-modern racist comments when arguing with the occasional racist on these boards?
Post-modernism is about the discomfort in the comment which people feel because of it's ambiguity. It doesn't mean that the person making the comment believes in the thing they are saying more that it will be recieved by some as "yeah, that's right" and by others as "outrageous thing to say"...
I don't get offended by the jokes, they just annoy me especially when cropping up in serious debates. It just annoys me how peopleare allowed to make jokes about the subjigation of women, but they wouldn't about any other group which was/is oppressed, or at least it wouldn't be tolerated.
It just gets really fucking old when you try to discuss a feminist issue and then somebody basically takes the piss out of women (tbh Kermit's joke was more ironic and making fun of the absurdity of sexism, rather than the former joke which sounded less so)....
Freedom of speech and all of course, but it's easy to see why people get annoyed at jokes like that.
I know for one I am very worried about both those things. More so about the pay gap because I know I will almost certainly experience it, hopefully I won't have to experience the other one.
I have a friend who works in asda and her boss has a thing against the young girls there for some reason, he gives them the worst jobs because he insists they can't do anything better. He also insults them infront of everyone. I read today that the pay gap in my region is higher than average - 13.something% i think and nationally its 11.something%. I don't see why something isn't being done about it.