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The "Islam Is Peace" campaign...
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Not that it should matter anyway because the point wasn't really about command of the English language (and Baal's is excellent incidentally). The point was about misrepresentation of words and meaning. Baal appeared to be implying constantly that honour killings were a commonplace occurrence. When I told him that wasn't the case he mentioned they were the third most common cause of murder- but that doesn't mean or proove anything about the commonality of such incidents. Despite this being explained to him repeteadly he continued (I can only think deliberately) to miss the point and even started to accuse me of lacking any humanity.
I'm pretty sure Baal understood from the off the concept of 'commonplace' involved in the discussion but chose to ignore it because it would destroy his earlier suggestion that Jordan is somehow overrun with mad Muslims killing their daughters and sisters on every street corner.
I hope we are all perfectly clear about the issue now.
I should have specified this in my answer.
However you obviously were not aware that muslims consider islam a "way of life" and you think islam is just a religion. Fine. Then at least let us compare islam to other religions.
You do not want us to compare islam to aztec. I am sorry. But on the point I was arguing. Aztec should be compared to ALL religions.
I am comparing how much can we trust the "Checks & Balances" that keeps religions in check. Can this system for example, that you blindly assume applies to islam, prevent other religions from having human sacrifice? from killing their prisoners of war? of course not.
People assume that religions have a system of checks and balances that prevent religions from going "Nuts". For having an unbalanced scriptural calls for violence and genocide. You are assuming that islam is just the same as Christianity and Judaism and Hinduism in that, it has some good and some bad just like all other religions.
You came to this conclusion without knowing much about Islam.
You claim to this conclusion because as per your explanation, you think islam has a system of checks and balances so it has just as much good as bad.
I just demonstrated to you a religion, out of hundreds of other vicious religions, where the System of "Checks & Balances" that you are using to measure Islam, does not exist the way you expect it to.
The "Checks & Balances" of islam is as follows: Unification. Everything is for the benefit of the tribe. Everything you do will benefit your tribe and your children. Everthing you do is to get your tribe bigger and get more people converted in. And less people converted out. Everything done AGAINST your tribe is Evil. Total Relative Morality, which worked for a lot of religions in the past. Islam's check against its own violence is the promise to its followers that they will benefit on Earth by belonging to the bigger islamic tribe.
See Islam does not Balance its Evil with Good.
Islam balances its Evil with the Benefits it offers to its followers. Islam knows, that the intellectual is not a customer of islam so Islam does not cater to the intellectual. Islam knows that men are physically stronger then women, so islam caters more to men but gives women just enough straws they can hang on. And make sure women in general become poorer and lose influence in couple generations through unfair inheritance laws favoring muslim males. Islam knows that the ruler and the rich in power are the decision makers, so islam makes sure all the decisions are put in the hand of the rulers, the Super Caliph and the Amazing Turbanites.
Unfortunately the benefits offered to muslim do very little to balance the evil it does to non-muslims, who are considered either future muslims or dead. Only the muslim male is allowed to marry non-muslim women. Once non-muslims refuse to accept islam then most of the verses of the sword can be activated against them, their land, their belongings (including their women) are now halal to muslims. A muslim is allowed to lie to protect himself, to protect the peace in his house and to make peace between disputing parties, in contrast to many other religions where not lying for one's faith is the highest virtue.
The one in which you use the bank analogy to try to explain your reasoning. (which by the way, when I read it, was sound)
Originally Posted by Baal
Which post you talking about?
Crap, you are right. I took me 15-20 mins to write that.
Which fact was not supported Jim? I do not even remember listing any facts?
I made use of the "Chill Effect", did you want me to explain what is the chill effect?
If the problem was my advice to Aladdin at the end of the post, then let me know, so I can separate the post from the advice. But do not blame my unsourced facts? specially when I said no new facts.
I do not know what to change in that post if I was to remember it word for word. At best I will make each paragraph into a separate post and you can delete the post/paragraph that you think is unfounded.
Do I have to treat this forum like I unfortunately have to treat muslim forums? Take an image of everything I post in case they delete/re-edit my post and/or theirs?
Aladdin, I do not like to shoot fish in a barrel, there is no Sport in that and it is more boring then Golf. Right now you are being that fish, So get out of the barrel and make another point. And stop supporting Gendercide and stop supporting Domestic Abuse.
It is a logical fallacy.
It is a very BIG logical fallacy considering the person who made this thread is NOT a Christian, does NOT believe in Christianity, and would level the SAME criticism to any intolerant teachings of Christianity or any Christian who commits violent/intolerant acts in the name of their religion.
^ Again, you are looking for 'agendas' instead of focusing on the topic.
Didn't I warn you about that over HERE? Don't you ever learn?
Attack the argument, not the arguer... and stop looking for 'agendas'.
^ Funnily enough, it was ME who created this thread.
But that didn't stop you from bombarding me with the tu-quoque logical fallacy of 'christianity is violent too' did it?
These other newcomers entered the thread much later on... your tu-quoque was already in full swing in the thread by then.
^ It just so happens that every ex-Muslim critic of Islam in the 'real' world has got death threats hanging over their heads.
Fool.
^ For Gods sakes I just wrote a long POST focusing on your tu-quoque logical fallacy argument that you repeat over and over and over again, and you reply back with some more tu-quoque!
Am I debating with a blockhead here? :banghead:
(I note you're referring to it in Italic).
You're giving it the whole..... "So what?"... "Big deal!"... "Its only an advertising campaign!"... "Aren't there more serious things to worry about?!" :rolleyes:
hm... :chin:
You know you've succeeded in a debate when your opponant begins to trivialise the very subject of the thread towards the end. :chin:
It's why I'm just not getting involved in the discussion. There is no outcome other than further entrenchment because the only reason they are here is to further their pre-existing agenda.
The other part that makes me laugh is that the "single issue users" think that they can make demands of moderators. People, you are guests here, nothing more. The mods are in charge.
Hello Man Of Kent.
Do you have anything to say regarding the actual topic?
What is your opinion of this incorrect, dishonest advertising campaign? Islamic propaganda or not?
Other than perhaps helping you vent some frustation and anger, would that have been a better outcome? Would have served a purpose? Isn't the point current affairs internet forums that when someone posts a view/opinion and it gets debated, examined and challenged?
Right or wrong, it is my opinion that simply denouncing the campaign as untrue is only part of the story and that there is very good reason for looking deeper into the issue and trying to understand the reasons behind it and the current political climate.
Others might think comparisons to Christianity might not be relevant. I'm sorry but I think they are. And not because I want to have a cheap shot at Christianity either. Put yourself in the mind of a moderate British Muslim who does not approve of Sharia law or any of the barbarities peddled in the Koran, and who yet has experienced a worrying rise in hostility from non-Muslims. Wouldn't you want to try to convince them that you and the majority of Muslims in this country are not extremists or terrorists and that they have nothing to fear from you?
Of course the current political situation or the double standards displayed by some matter to the topic. The factual accuracy of the advertising campaign is only part of the story.
Yes thanks. Am I not allowed other opinions too?
That your description is unfair, that I really don't have a problem with people trying to improve an image when they have been vilified through our racist media.
I also find it interesting that this thread is an attack, again, on Islam and that similar issues could - in spite of protestations - be levelled against many other religions in the world who portary themelves are caring when the actions of a few of their followers would suggest that the opposite is true.
My last observation is that the last time that this place was invaded by "single issue users", they were racists. I see very little difference between many of their steroetyped arguments and the ones being used here.
As Jim has pointed out, there are over 1bn followers of Islam. There doesn't appear to be any evidence that there is even a significant proportion who are violent.
I agree that moderate British Muslims would be desperate to improve the image and any negativety that anyone has towards Muslims as a whole.
I was one of these moderate Muslims myself for over 20 years and I would've wanted the same.
But I also understand the predicament that most of these moderate Muslims are in. On one hand they are being preached and brainwashed to come closer to Islam... and on the other hand they are carrying on with their daily lives as the good, decent human beings that they are.
tbh, the only politically incorrect campaign that they could've come up with is something with a slogan with goes something like this:
The vast majority of 'Muslims' do not follow the intolerant teachings of Islam/Muhammad.
What brought that up? This thread has gone on for over 30 pages and there hasn't been any racism anywhere.
So, do you want me to run my words by your first, is there some kind of law which restricts the use of that word?
NB
Total number of threads started by sanitize = 6
Total number attacking Islam or it's followers = 5
The "Islam Is Peace" campaign...
Is it fair to say that Muhammad was a paedophile?
NEW London Muslim protest video...
Reaction to Prophet Muhammad cartoons in London
How much do you REALLY know about Islam?
Please answer the question. I haven't got time for clever responses.
Like I mentioned, this thread has gone on for over 30 pages and there has been no racism anywhere... until you brought up the word for some reason.
I explained why the majority of my posts are about Islam/religion etc earlier in the thread.
It's post 389 on this page... http://vbulletin.thesite.org/showthread.php?t=121595&page=26
As to whether my posts are "attacking Islam or its followers" or not... I would welcome you debate this with me.
Yes. As I was posting a reply to this thread I pressed they keys r, a c, i, s and t in succession on at least two occasions.
Which is a shame really because I have several.
And?
Just because no-one has mentioned it before, does that mean that I cannot now?
It shows that you have a very clear agenda, one which seems to promote hatred towards Islam and it's followers. Sure you can try to disguise it as debate, or claim it's because you are trying to "expose the truth about Islam" but it's glaring really IMHO.
I don't have much time for people who seem to want to use these boards purely to promote their own thinly veiled agenda and don't contribute anywhere else.
Let me try one more time...
How on earth did the word or the subject of racism enter this discussion?
What brought it up?
Can you please actually answer the question this time.
Which is a shame, because, as I said, there are plenty more where those came from.
Natural progession of a debate.
What's the problem, doesn't it suit how you want the thread to go?
Please explain....
Why am I having to force it out of you?
^ Slander.
I would happily promote hatred towards the intolerant/violent teachings of Islam and the Muslims who follow these intolerant/violent teachings....
.... but nothing else.
And if you browse through this thread, I think you'll find that non of my comments prove otherwise.
^ I invite you to participate in the debates Man Of Kent... but you have to remove that cynical chip off your shoulder first.
^ Don't give me that 'I haven't got time' excuse.
You've pretty much put your foot in it now.
Don't come into this thread, make a few slanderous comments and then say that you "haven't got time" for people like me.
I invite you to debate any issue that you have any concerns over.
Do you just bark or do you bite too?
**wonders if Man Of Kent knows that I have brown skin** :chin:
**and the fact that Muslims aren't a race**
No, the only agenda which you seem to have is to promote a negative view of Islam.
Opinion isn't slander.
Show me a slanderous comment that I have made in this thread.
And don;t presume that you are in any position to dictate to me the words which I can use, the order in which they are used or what I can and cannot comment on in a thread.
I don't need to. The history of your comments on these boards is there for all to see. As you say, there is no secret information in there.
However, if you read my post in which the "racist" comment appears you will note that it was aimed firstly at the British press and the fact that their portrayal of Islam and Muslim is negative. As is yours.
*wonders why this make a difference*
Is it only caucasians who can make racist comments then?
ETA: You are correct, Muslims are not a race. However, hatred towards people based on their religious beliefs is treated in the same way as hatred towards people based on their race.