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The "Islam Is Peace" campaign...
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I really didn't want to be pulled into this debate, but just want to mention something about the 'source' you've given above.
The question and answer you've pointed to are not an example of Islam applied to real life. They are in the context of a theological q&a on an historical issue which was undoubtedly rife at the time.
So a theological ruling is not an example of Islam applied to real life if it was prescribed for muslims in the past? Why, were they not living real lives in the past? Were these muslims not following the Qur'an in the past? What changed about Islam since "the past" where you could discuss rulings on the details of raping prisoners of war?
And don't bother to answer all that because anybody can click on the link and see that it is not about the past, it is a current and thriving issue.
A lot of people reading this thread aren't very knowledgeable about Islam so its not fair to overwhelm them.
There is no need to discuss things like honour killing etc unless its really relevant to the campaign.
**I'm just throwing in the odd post while I'm at work, I'll post properly when I'm at home**
This IslamIsPeace campaign however is trying to deny that any intolerant/bad teachings even exist in the Quran.
Unfortunatly there are Muslims out there who aspire to follow the Quran and Muhammad to the latter. That is afterall what we are taught to do.
But thankfully the majority of Muslims do not, and are very peaceful human beings who just get on with their lives.
I do believe that calling the majority of muslims murderers would be a reason for banning, but I have been following this thread very carefully Jim, and nobody has. Baal made a statement in response to Shyguy that you admonished him for, and he clarified it. He made it perfectly clear that he was saying that amongst the minority of muslims who commit murder a sizeable number use Islam as their justification. We all read that so don't insult our intelligence.
And btw, does anybody else remember that post where Baal used a hypothetical example of bank robberies going unpunished to describe the state of intimidation that exists among women in a population where honour killings and domestic violence go unpunished? Did I dream that post, or what? Where did it disappear to?
Sigh. Please don't tell me you have deleted it again:rolleyes:
Any explanation this time?
Lets just all focus on the topic.
You don't get to debate by claiming facts without providing any evidence. If it keeps getting posted it'll be delted until he's banned for posting claims without any evidence or masquerading his own opinions as fact.
Is that right? Baal claimed to know exactly how all muslim people act and feel about something? And you believe the phrase was ALL muslims feel this way? I copied and pasted Baal's exact words. If I post them again, will you highlight the parts where you saw such outrageous claims? Please. Because as far as I saw he said nothing of the sort.
I think there does too. Jim V's conduct is extraordinary enough to warrant a thread, but this is not it. So let's get back on topic.
That kind of claim simply can't be made without some evidence to back it up - it isn't presented as personal opinion but as fact
I saw the post in question too, at no stage did he claim ALL muslims, and I also remember he asked you to highlight the part you were upset about, so that he could provide evidence or discuss it.
Which seemed pretty reasonable I thought.
Its been named about 4 times already in this thread, Suzy. Did you miss it, or did you think you had uncovered a big secret?
It's a website called faithfreedom - this is their own description of the site -
'Faith Freedom International is a grassroots movement of ex-Muslims. Its goals are to (a) unmask Islam and show that it is an imperialistic ideology akin to Nazism but disguised as religion and (b) to help Muslims leave it, end this culture of hate caused by their "us" vs. "them" ethos and embrace the human race in amity. We strive for the unity of Mankind through the elimination of Islam, the most insidious doctrine of hate. Islam can't be reformed, but it can be eradicated. It can't be molded, but it can be smashed. It is rigid but brittle. That is why Muslims do not tolerate criticism of it. To eradicate Islam, all we have to do is tell the truth. It's that simple. Truth about Islam is out. It's all here in this site. Now it is up to you to spread it. With truth, the decent Muslims will leave Islam and with each Muslim that leaves, we gain a new soldier in our fight against terrorism. We are growing exponentially. The days of Islam are numbered and world peace is around the corner. Many of us will see that day. We might have to go through very tough times meanwhile. The storm is approaching.'
You can see threads about their other 'debates' on other websites in these examples -
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48192
and here's the wikipedia page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithfreedom
Which part of that did you think wasn't true? have you been a muslim woman living in fear? I have, I also know plenty of muslim women in that position.
Which evidence did you hope would back it up? the silent reports that never happen? the statistics that can not be collected in those places?
The view is that islam did not go through the renaissance period that Christianity had the chance to go through. The real dispute is, would islam survive such renaissance? in my opinion, whether islam would survive the reformation or not is irrelevant. We can only reform and it is up to islam to adapt.
It is my view that, criticizing the West for being itself is counter-productive. Criticizing the West for exerting its greatest gift to humanity, IMO that gift being the inquisitive & critical mind, is counter-productive to the speedy reformation of islam.
After reading the material of the "Islam is Peace" campaign, I am dismayed that the target of this campaign is, the inquisitive and critical mind of the West. The target of the campaign is the perception of the West.
IMO the target of that campaign should be the Imams and Sheikhs and Mullahs who go off the handle in their sermons and in the type of youth groups they form within their mosques. The imams are only representing the islam at face value, repeating what the islamic texts are telling them.
Unfortunately, just because the written text is violent, this is no excuse for the Imams to repeat it to us. They are welcome to abrogate the text. They are welcome to ignore the text. They are welcome to declare the text as in insertion in the book, just like the Satanic verses in the koran were declared from Satan and not from Allah. However the only way the Imams will get off their ass and denounce the violence in their scripture, is if the islamic congregations put pressure on them.
"Islam is Peace" the way it is, is not putting pressure on the violent imams. It is only putting pressure on the critics of the violent imams.
You can present it as opinion all you want. If you want to write something as an absolute you'll need a link. I suggest you move on, I don't like board invasions by political movements at the best of times but continue to try my patience on this and this thread will be closed.
Jim, if I had heard the reason I wouldn't have reposted it. All I heard was twaddle about Baal claimed all muslims this or that, when I can read the post myself and see that this is not the case.
So why did you really delete it? Twice?
Excuse me? could you please back that up with facts.:rolleyes: seriously what political movement?
'Faith Freedom International is a grassroots movement of ex-Muslims. Its goals are to (a) unmask Islam and show that it is an imperialistic ideology akin to Nazism but disguised as religion and (b) to help Muslims leave it, end this culture of hate caused by their "us" vs. "them" ethos and embrace the human race in amity. We strive for the unity of Mankind through the elimination of Islam, the most insidious doctrine of hate. Islam can't be reformed, but it can be eradicated. It can't be molded, but it can be smashed. It is rigid but brittle. That is why Muslims do not tolerate criticism of it. To eradicate Islam, all we have to do is tell the truth. It's that simple. Truth about Islam is out. It's all here in this site. Now it is up to you to spread it. With truth, the decent Muslims will leave Islam and with each Muslim that leaves, we gain a new soldier in our fight against terrorism. We are growing exponentially. The days of Islam are numbered and world peace is around the corner. Many of us will see that day. We might have to go through very tough times meanwhile. The storm is approaching.'
How does that prove your claim that you have been invaded by a political movement?