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Whatever happened to personal responsibility?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7047244.stm
I have sympathy for those who have glandular problems, but frankly everyone has the time to go for a run, or getting off at a further bus-stop in the morning. If you're fat do something about it yourself or accept it. Let's not think that it's all society's fault (again!)
Dr Susan Jebb of the Medical Research Council said that in this environment, it was surprising that anyone was able to remain thin, and so the notion of obesity simply being a product of personal over-indulgence had to be abandoned for good.
I have sympathy for those who have glandular problems, but frankly everyone has the time to go for a run, or getting off at a further bus-stop in the morning. If you're fat do something about it yourself or accept it. Let's not think that it's all society's fault (again!)
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That's not to say of course that there shouldnt be loads of help, but it is (in most cases) self induced harm.
More council run and cheap exercise classes and swimming pools wouldnt go a miss too.
But.... I agree. In most cases if you are fat it's down to an inability to take responsibility for your own consumption. While I don't think it's right to ridicule obese people publically (some guy was on the radio earlier saying he gets called names everytime he goes out shopping) I do think that it's rediculous that so many overweight people won't admit that it is they and they alone who are rresponsible for their 'condition'.
...several hundred years ago people were still managing to get a life somehow even though there wasn't always enough (affordable) food to eat, and education was what you picked up for yourself rather than had spoon fed for 1/5 of your life, etc.
I mean,I was guilty of it in the past and seriously messing up last year, then having to pick myself up, has really made me appreciate things much more. So rather than expecting to be 'taught' and sit in a lecture / seminar like in school, I now am compiling my own reading lists, from the sources the lecturers have given me, and basically being much more pro-active.
The same applies to basic healthcare, it is, as you say, all about taking responsibility for yourself. Because the NHS is there it doesn't mean you're safe, I still see us living in a society of dog eat dog so to speak, with those at the bottom still not enjoying life.
But a fair few of them could pull themselves out of it, but don't want to have to do it themselves.
well they aint denied but they get put back which is fair imo then again whose to say drikning or smoking is the cause of your specific problem
That's the headline.
Reality is that people are told to quit smoking before getting an aneasthetic because it could kill them.
As for the OP, I graoned when I heard this report. I won't tell you what a couple of GP, whom I met today, were saying but it wasn't complimentary.
The report effectively says that society has changed and genetically we haven't kept up and that it's not that we eat badly and don't exercise.
The report then says that what has changed in society is increased amounts of fatty foods and kids/adults not having to walk, do as many manual tasks and an increase in home based entertainment.
In other words, we eat badly and don't exercise enough.
:banghead:
But also junk food was much harder to come by .. visited several supermarkets in the area and you can hardly buy food like crisps and what you'd call junk foods.
But drinkers dont get liver transplants do they?
They are told to quit drinking first though, hence the outrage about George Best.
People eat less, and better, than they did in the 1950s. Everyone always forgets than when they talk about eating habits. The problem is exercise, and for most people it's not practical to do more exercise outside of work.
And it won't be practical whilst we have a society where it's necessary to drive everywhere, and where all the jobs are sitting down at desks.
I've put on weight since I got a job in a rural office which means I have to drive there. I do the same exercise that I did before I started the job, but I don't walk four miles a day from the office to the bus stop or the shops anymore.
if you are living a sedentary life and don't take any exercise you don't need as many calories to start with...
Time pressures are important for most people. People who have the time and the money to go the gym are really in the minority.
Seems to me that if by 2050 75% of the country were going to be heroin addicts then people would be demanding that drug dealers be prosecuted, stronger drug education should be brought in, addicts given support. So I'm a bit confused as to why something that is going to be a massive problem is dismissed and people actively want the government to do nothing to help.
Just confuses me sometimes why people would prefer to see things get worse than explore all possible solutions.
And as to not seeing obese people in Italy - this report isn't suggesting 75% of people will suddenly turn into Big Daddy but that 75% will be obese according to the BMI (so that includes George Clooney, Brad Pitt, body builders, etc).
Who said anything about a gym? Now I no longer play rugby the only money I put into fitness is going swimming once a week. But I can get up a bit earlier a couple of times a week and pound the pavement, I walk to the tube rather than take the bus and before my bath I tend to do some sit-ups and push-ups.
Now this takes some time, but I honestly don't believe that people don't have the time to do some basic fitness. What they are doing is making a decision they'd rather spend their spare time doing something else. That's fair enough - but they can't then complain that the fact they're putting on weight is anbody fault other than their own.
To be honest I'm cynical about reports which extropolate future social trends, they're as often wrong as they are right.
But my point isn't neccessarily that the Government shouldn't subsidise swimming pools (though they wouldn't need too if more people used them), or tries to educate them that eating lots of fatty foods and taking no exercise is bad for you.
My point is that at the end of the day it is your responsibility and whilst the fact we live a less physically active life than our grandparents may be an explanation, it doesn't absolve us from responsibility
Strongly agree.
I've put on weight since starting my office job full-time and it's because i'm eating as much as i was previously, and expending less energy. I take responsibility for my weight, because it's my responsibility to take. It'd be all too easy to try shift the blame elsewhere, when the simple fact is i'm eating more than i need to, and exercising less. There's a culture of blame shifting and dissipating appearing and, i for one think, it's dangerous.
People aren't getting fatter because they eat more cream cakes and more chips (if anything, the reverse is true as we eat less now than we did in the 50s), it's far more complex than that. When people say "take some personal responsibility" was is normally meant is "stop eating so many chips fatso", which doesn't help anyone. And for a lot of people isn't true (I probably eat more healthily than most people- I barely eat meat, don't use saturated fat very often, etc etc).
That's an explanation, but my reading of the BBC report is that its a lot more than an explanation, but also an excuse. ie its not your fault you're fat; it's modern society.
Now I accept the report may be more nuanced, but what we need to understand is that the Government or society cannot make you loose weight - only you can do that and you, as an individual, need to take responsibility.
Well I'd agree that we are eating a healthier diet overall. But by taking personal responsibility I do mean eating less chips and drink less alcohol. But I also mean do some press-ups, going for a run.
And if you don't do that you need to accept that you could do and its no good blaming obesity on society when you could do something to improve your own fitness.
I'm afraid i don't really see how it is complicated. The issue can be clouded, sure, but at the end of the day if you're taking on more potential energy than you're expending, you'll put on weight. And i defy you to find anyone who's putting away a pie & chip lunch who believes they're going to burn it off by sitting at their desk for the rest of the afternoon; they're eating it because it's tasty.
I've also seen documentaries - i'll try find a link - which states the role a slow metabolism plays in overweight people is greatly overstated.
I actually hate gyms... My dyspraxia makes it harder for me to work out and I feel like people are watching me.
A lot of larger people have low self-esteem, going to a gym could be daunting and going swimming a nightmare.
A lot of people comfort eat too (I used to and I was bigger than I am now).
I think it's more complicated too.
I live pretty much on freshly cooked vegetables, I have chocolate once a week and I'm overweight (though not massiely so... I'm a size 14/16). My problem though is that although I'm hardly in at home, the places I go and the jobs I work are no longer physical. I think the shift in the labour markets has something to do with it.
I know a lot of skinny people who sit around and just eat crap and play computer games who aren't fat at all. I also think genetics plays a huge role.
Society has a shitty attitude towards bigger people... I mean come on, are we really encouraging people when we make fun of their weight to actually go and do something? or are we enforcing a vicious circle of low self-esteem and perceived helplessness?
It is a lot of money, it's nearly one week's benefit, for instance. Even on my wage it's a big outlay.
And then there's the time issue too.
Again true.
I've never been the fastest runner, and my hand-eye co-ordination isn't the best. I had a fantastic time in games lessons at school, and it's really put me off most sport and it's only now, ten years on, that I have any desire to go out on my bike, or go walking.
It really isn't as simple as go to the gym or go for a run. And whilst as a country we persist in mocking overweight people and telling them it's all because they are bone idle and eat chips all day every day people are not going to go and try and do something about their weight.
As I say, when people talk about "personal responsibility" they mean that overweight people are bone idle and eat shit all the time. Amusingly, these are the same people who were whingeing about the smoking ban a month ago because "smokers can't help it" and should be pandered to because of that.
Why has everyone got a fixation with gyms?
You do not need a gym to do sit-ups, you do not need a treadmill to jog, you do not need a roqing machine to walk to the shops rather than take a bus.
That's a different issue. There are people who eat because they're depressed. But the majority of people who are overweight aren't comfort eating
.
Yes we all agree that people do less physical work. But then you need to do something. Either accept that you are overweight and that this isn't healthy or go and do something about it. saying it's my job is really just a cop out.
It does to an extent - but you may also find that they're put on a lot of weight when they get older
But in 99% of cases of people who are overweight we're talking about the massive chap who can hardly stand (and who probably are bullied and made fun off), but people who can pinch more than inch and who are obese by the clinical definition, but probably wouldn't be described so by the man in the street (bit chubby p'haps)
The amount of publicity the government put's out about what you can do to improve your health I can't see how anyone hasn't got the message that as an individual you can do something.
again the gym fixation...
Of course it takes time. And its up to you how you use that time, whether its posting on the internet, watching the TV or doing some exercise. But everyone has time - you just want to use it doing something else
How much is mocking and how much is it telling people who are overweight there are health risks...
I argued against the smoking ban because it was a right we previously used to have which was taken away (and I accept that there are health benefits to me as I smoke less when I'm out and will probably smoke even less as it gets colder)
But then I have no problem with accepting responsibility for my own smoking. I wasn't forced to start and as countless millions have shown it is possible to stop. I smoke because I enjoy it.
And what I mean by personal responsbility is that in 99% of cases people who are overweight can do something about it. They don't need gyms or lots of money. If they're shy about they're body they don't have to even strip off in the swimming pool.
Again... It's about having the time and energy. If you work a 50 hour week you don't have time to go jogging, or you're too tired. If you live in an unsafe area then you're not wanting to go out on a jog, especially if you're a woman.
What about it? You've got time to post on the internet so you've got time to do 10 minutes of sit-ups
I've worked longer than 50 hours and still had time to do some exercises before my bath. You don't need to jog if you don't want - sit-ups and push-ups can be done in the bathroom.
All I'm hearing is excuses.
Aye, but you (and others) were a lot slower to accept responsibility for the health damage to others...
:yes:
Who's saying anyone is disconnected from society? I'm saying that you can (in the vast majority of cases) take responsibility for your own weight.
What I'm arguing is aaginst the horrible pernicious idea that everything is the fault of society and the fact your fat is society's fault. Which is a very useful ideology for nobody at all as it absolves individuals from doing anything.