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Health Care: America versus the UK

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    . I think if you want to look at chronic wastes of money, you should look at the money spent on that pseudoscientific bullshit homeopathy, which is clinically untested, completely unproven, and has no basis in scientific evidence. The fact that we can pay for that, but not pay for a drug because it hasn't undergone the correct clinical trials is bullshit (and I agree the cancer drug should go through the correct clinical trials, as should anything else). You want to pay for the good effects of having someone spend time with patients, then pay for more councillers, not some new age bullshit marsquerading as legitimate medicine.

    WTF have you got against homeopathy to spew that rant?

    Ive never heard of the NHS funding homeopathy tbh, but complemetary therapies can be wonderful and often work where conventional medicine fails.
    Its hard to conduct proper scientific trials of something when its something that you have to prescribe holistically, taking into account the whole person, so the treatment may not be the same for two different people with the same illness, but its a shame if you completely dismiss it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    WTF have you got against homeopathy to spew that rant?
    It's a practice with absolutely no proven causal effects on the patient. It is essentially identical to employing miracle healers or scientologists to carry out a bit of dianetics, or maybe a fortune teller in MI5 to warn of impending terrorist attacks. Not only is it wholely unproven, but the very concept is scientifically ridiculous. The fact that they've managed to wrangle their way into the list of NHS funded practices is the biggest scam going. If patients feel benefits after homeopathy, it certainly isn't for the reasons they claim. And this does matter, because we're paying for it.
    Ive never heard of the NHS funding homeopathy tbh, but complemetary therapies can be wonderful and often work where conventional medicine fails.
    Really?
    Its hard to conduct proper scientific trials of something when its something that you have to prescribe holistically, taking into account the whole person, so the treatment may not be the same for two different people with the same illness, but its a shame if you completely dismiss it.
    I don't completely dismiss it. I say it shouldn't be funded until adequate scientific trials have been done. It should have the same chance to prove itself as any other treatment. And don't be ridiculous, it's possible to do scientific trials of any treatment. Psychiatry has the same issues where different patients respond differently, but that has no problem proving itself as a valid medical practice. The scientific claims of homeopathy are quite clear (and make no mistake, they do claim a scientific theory behind their work). And scientifically they've been proven wrong time and time again, yet we still fund it. And I chose homeopathy, because I needed an example of money being wasted, and I could think of none more obvious that this.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In a strange kind of way I would quite like Homeopathy to go through proper double blind trials and work - because if it did we would have to rethink almost everything we know about physics and chemistry.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i had no idea it was on the NHS, but im not totally against it, although as i said, it works holistically. A remedy that would work on one person wouldnt necessarily work on another person with the same symtoms, as you have to take the persons whole personality into account in a lot of cases.
    It DOES work differently to conventional medicine, so maybe thats why they havent been able to prove it, although as I said, ive had several instances where homeopathy has worked where conventional medicine hasnt for me and for my family, and im not against conventional medicine at all.

    If it works, then i dont see why anyone would be against it
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If it works, then i dont see why anyone would be against it

    No one would, its the fact that it doesnt have to go through the same testing which gets to people.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    maybe it doesnt have to go through the same testing as drugs because it doesnt work in the same way as conventional drugs.
    In the same way that different sorts of therapy work for some people and not for others, doesnt mean they are useless.
    Counselling, psychotherapy etc dont work on everybody yet theyre still provided on the NHS as part of holistic treatment, and plenty of mental health treatments are the same - they dont know why some of it works, they just know it does.

    Going through the same testing sounds like conventional medicine is safe, yet homeopathy and similar complementary therapies being "not scientifically tested" arent as safe or something, when often homeopathy has very good results with no side effects.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Homeopathy has no effects at all though, it's bollox. Every single drop of water on the planet isn't strong enough to make dilutions of the strengths they claim, and certainly not without containing all the other things they say are in their other drops of magic water. Te he, magic water- the playground assistants used to clean our knee grazes with magic water, looked just like water to me- funny that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's not just not scientifically proven, it's scientifically proven to be false. It is physically impossible, chemically impossible, biologically impossible, and as close to bollocks as you're ever going to find outside of the trousers. If it works for some people, then scientific testing needs to be done into which aspect of the treatment works for some people, and the most cost-effective way of implimenting that within the strict budgets of the NHS. No-one ever said that just because some treatments don't work for everyone (which treatments do?) they shouldn't be funded, just that treatments that aren't proven to work for anyone, shouldn't be funded by everyone.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    so how the fuck has it worked for both me and my children then?
    Im not a magician
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    so how the fuck has it worked for both me and my children then?
    Im not a magician

    It hasn't worked for you and your children. There may be some aspect of the treatment that had a positive effect, but it certainly wasn't the bit that makes it homeopathy. You really think you were cured by magic water?

    Incidentally, ever feel better just by visiting a doctor? Ever feel better when you're given a chance to talk about your problems for longer than the average 8 minute doctors visit? It's nothing to do with any special abilities that the individual may have.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can you prove that it hasn't work for SCC and her children?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    my son had molluscum contagiusm (loads of little warts). The doctor told me there was nothing they could do. They said just leave it and it goes away in 18mths to 2 years.
    I left it for a while. It got worse. I went to a homeopath. She did an interview with lenny to get an idea of what sort of child he was, then came back to me a couple of days later with a remedy - one pill a day for three days. It cleared up over the course of those three days.

    My friends daughter had the same thing except shes had the molluscum for about 18mths and it was getting steadily worse. I recommended the homeopath and she went there. It worked brilliantly.
    £20 bloody well spent.

    When I had a huge allergic reaction on my face and no antihistamine the doctor gave me or the steroid cream made any difference. I tried the homeopathic remedy apis mel. The swelling went down within a day. It was the only thing that helped.


    When ive had morning sickness, Ive found the remedy nux vomica to be a lifesaver.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if id felt better just by going to the doctor, i wouldnt have bothered going to the homeopath too.
    You are incredibly closed minded.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote: »
    Can you prove that it hasn't work for SCC and her children?

    Well if we ignore the small point that it is impossible to prove a negative, I can prove that it is fundamentally impossible if we accept the current mountain of scientific evidence that would contradict the claims of homeopathy (scientific evidence that has been responsible for pretty much every medical advancement we've ever made). But since when did "well you can't prove it didn't help" become an acceptable argument for spending millions of pounds of public money on unproven medical practices?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's not to do with being closed minded though- the way they themselves say it works is bollox.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    my son had molluscum contagiusm (loads of little warts). The doctor told me there was nothing they could do. They said just leave it and it goes away in 18mths to 2 years.
    I left it for a while. It got worse. I went to a homeopath. She did an interview with lenny to get an idea of what sort of child he was, then came back to me a couple of days later with a remedy - one pill a day for three days. It cleared up over the course of those three days.

    My friends daughter had the same thing except shes had the molluscum for about 18mths and it was getting steadily worse. I recommended the homeopath and she went there. It worked brilliantly.
    £20 bloody well spent.

    When I had a huge allergic reaction on my face and no antihistamine the doctor gave me or the steroid cream made any difference. I tried the homeopathic remedy apis mel. The swelling went down within a day. It was the only thing that helped.


    When ive had morning sickness, Ive found the remedy nux vomica to be a lifesaver.

    And if you can point to the chemical makeup of those pills, and exactly what biological effect they had on your body, along with an independent scientific study proving this, I'll begin to believe you (not that what you say is true, merely why you claim it happened is true). If these pills and substances are legitimate, then why can they not go through the same testing as any other? Why are the mainstream drug companies not snapping them up, considering the amount of money that could be made from them?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    you cannot prove that its impossible that homeopathy didnt help me or my children. You obviously dont WANT to believe it, but thats a shame for you if you ever get something that could be simply helped with a homeopathic treatment, and you completely disregard it.
    Thats your loss and noone elses.
    I on the other hand KNOW it has worked and does work because I have first hand experience.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And I know it works as well because I've also had first hand experience and my parents sometimes use it. And it has been recommended to me by various people on here.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    It's not to do with being closed minded though- the way they themselves say it works is bollox.

    It may sound far fetched, but it does work.

    I find it very hard to believe that the placebo effect could be so strong that i could heal my 6 year old with it!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if id felt better just by going to the doctor, i wouldnt have bothered going to the homeopath too.
    You are incredibly closed minded.

    So it's closed minded to point out a severe lack of facts backing up your assertions is it? You believed your problems were cured by the homeopath, but you don't know. And every independent study attempting to answer the question would say that you weren't cured by the methods the homeopath claims. The placebo effect, or any number of possible explinations could be true, but it certainly isn't homeopathy.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It isn't far fetched, it's bollox. They say the pills contain a dilution of a substance that simply isn't possible. They may work on some other level, placebo or otherwise, but there aren't purple hoglets in the sky and there isn't enough water for what they claim- it's simply not true rather than a case of disbelieving.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    so how did it cure my son of his molluscum in 3 days then?

    the power of coincidence?

    the same power of coincidence that meant that when my friend took her daughter for the same complaint, hers cleared up too?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Katralla & I'm With Stupid - can you two actually prove that what SCC is saying is a load of rubbish like you're claiming?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    oh how annoying.
    I hope you die
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe you'd be better actually looking for evidence that it works rather than just repeating the old "it worked for me" line. Miracle healing worked for a million people that visited Lourdes as well, but I don't think public money should go towards that either (incidentally, why does God only heal problems that the body can naturally heal itself?). And it's not just my loss, it's everyone's loss, because we're all paying for it. Get any sort of treatment you want with your own money, but as soon as you start using the public coffers, it's not unreasonable to expect a bit of independent evidence.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't know but it wasn't by making physically impossible dilutions of a substance.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote: »
    Katralla & I'm With Stupid - can you two actually prove that what SCC is saying is a load of rubbish like you're claiming?

    Can you prove that there isn't a mini teapot god in the sky?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    die
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    oh how annoying.
    I hope you die

    How charming. Thankfully I won't die, because I'll put my faith in proven western medicine that has been independentally verified. It seems to have served the human race pretty well so far.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    . Thankfully I won't die, .

    of course you wont dear.
    medicine will save you.
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