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Homeowner arrested after burglar falls from window.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MancDan wrote: »
    My entire argument before was based on the case where a thief was climbing through a window, was caught out, and consequently fell out of it. I never even mentioned Tony Martin before in my argument, yet you somehow made it part of it. I don't advocate pulling out a gun on anyone. Confronting someone with a good deal of force though I do advocate. IF there injured, tough luck. What I cant grasp is why burglars are somehow entitled to rights if there injured in the confrontation.

    :confused:

    I was replying to a point made by another poster, not you.
    MancDan wrote: »
    If this guy on life support dies, frankly, its his own fault. If the house owner is prosecuted, I'll be pissed! The owner didn't pull out a gun, he confronted a burglar breaking into his home, the burglar, startled, then fell. Does the home owner deserve prosecution? or was he supposed to let the guy climb through into the house safely before any confrontation ensued?

    We don't know the circumstances, if the burglar just fell from the roof then he doesn't deserve a case or any pity from anyone and the home owner doesn't deserve prosecution. If he was in the house and the owner dragged him to the window and threw him out then there's a case there.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "Reasonable force" is a term so vague that it could mean anything to anyone. If a burglar ended up seriously harmed or killed by someone defending their property, I wouldn't have much of a problem with it. (unless it was proven that the homeowner deliberately killed that person, in that case, they can both rot in hell) However, as I'm actuely aware, this is a view many disagree with. I suppose it would depend entirely on what the jury views as "reasonable force" in the end.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    "Reasonable force" is a term so vague that it could mean anything to anyone. If a burglar ended up seriously harmed or killed by someone defending their property, I wouldn't have much of a problem with it. (unless it was proven that the homeowner deliberately killed that person, in that case, they can both rot in hell) However, as I'm actuely aware, this is a view many disagree with. I suppose it would depend entirely on what the jury views as "reasonable force" in the end.

    Which is exactly why its a good law, it takes the situation into account and you are judged by a panel of your peers. In reality this means you have to go WAY over the top before anything will happen to you because people are naturally on the homeowners side.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    "Reasonable force" is a term so vague that it could mean anything to anyone. If a burglar ended up seriously harmed or killed by someone defending their property, I wouldn't have much of a problem with it. (unless it was proven that the homeowner deliberately killed that person, in that case, they can both rot in hell) However, as I'm actuely aware, this is a view many disagree with. I suppose it would depend entirely on what the jury views as "reasonable force" in the end.

    The court will always err on the side of the victim anyway unless it's clear cut the victim was in the wrong. It's not a hard concept to grasp though, you assess the situation on it's merits; scum like Tony Martin have no excuse for what they did and I hope you retract your statement that Tony Martin was a good, misunderstood man. You've said twice in this thread already that homeowners who deliberately kill burglars should rot in hell, which is what Tony Martin done.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its also interesting to see comments about the 'criminal scum' who was shot when Tony Martin had an illegal gun, frankly I think possession of an illegal firearm slightly above burglary in the ranking of 'criminal scum'.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    "Reasonable force" is a term so vague that it could mean anything to anyone. If a burglar ended up seriously harmed or killed by someone defending their property, I wouldn't have much of a problem with it. (unless it was proven that the homeowner deliberately killed that person, in that case, they can both rot in hell) However, as I'm actuely aware, this is a view many disagree with. I suppose it would depend entirely on what the jury views as "reasonable force" in the end.

    Its not a vague term at all. If you kill someone and you honestly feared your life was in danger you're fine. If you kill someone and you honestly didn't fear your life was in danger its a crime. If you lawfully detain someone and they resist and in the scuffle you black their eye that's reasonable, if they give up without resistance you tie them to the radiator and then take kicks at their head it unreasonable...

    Its hard to argue that you reasonably think your life is in danger if the person you shoot is running away...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    ...scum like Tony Martin have no excuse for what they did and I hope you retract your statement that Tony Martin was a good, misunderstood man. You've said twice in this thread already that homeowners who deliberately kill burglars should rot in hell, which is what Tony Martin done.
    Retract my statement? I'll do nothing of the kind. My view is he was a man at the end of his tether. His property had been burgled countless times, the police did nothing about it. It was unfortunate that the man in question died, but I will never shed any tears over the death of a criminal.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I will never shed any tears over the death of a criminal.

    ...at the hands of another criminal, why is one ok and the other worthy of death?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Retract my statement? I'll do nothing of the kind. My view is he was a man at the end of his tether. His property had been burgled countless times, the police did nothing about it. It was unfortunate that the man in question died, but I will never shed any tears over the death of a criminal.

    So lying in wait, with an illegal gun and shootng someone in the back as they tried to escape from a house is ok? You're another sick man.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    ...at the hands of another criminal, why is one ok and the other worthy of death?
    Well... it isn't. If Tony Martin snuffed it, I wouldn't shed any tears over him either.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Retract my statement? I'll do nothing of the kind. My view is he was a man at the end of his tether. His property had been burgled countless times, the police did nothing about it. It was unfortunate that the man in question died, but I will never shed any tears over the death of a criminal.

    Really? murder is murder. Tony Martin set out to ambush and kill whoever came into his house. The person he murdered was 16...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    SG; I think part of the problem people have with your posts is you seem confused, first you are saying that Tony Martin is a good man and we should all be allowed to do what he did. Then you are suggesting that homeowners who murder burglars should 'rot in hell'.

    That and you seem further to the right of Atila the Hun advocating no rights what so ever for criminals and the use of torture as a punishment after trial.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Well... it isn't. If Tony Martin snuffed it, I wouldn't shed any tears over him either.
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    The name Tony Martin has appeared several times in this thread. What a good man he was.
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Liberals don't like Tony Martin, because he believes in protecting his own property.
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    He did what he felt appropriate, and I won't criticise him for it.
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I think the way the courts dealt with Tony Martin was over-zealous, trying to make an example of him.

    Hmm...:banghead:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    SG; I think part of the problem people have with your posts is you seem confused, first you are saying that Tony Martin is a good man and we should all be allowed to do what he did. Then you are suggesting that homeowners who murder burglars should 'rot in hell'.
    I don't accept that Tony Martin "murdered" that burglar in cold blood. And the moment a criminal enters someone's house, they should forfeit all their rights.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I don't accept that Tony Martin "murdered" that burglar in cold blood. And the moment a criminal enters someone's house, they should forfeit all their rights.

    So they would have to do more than lie in wait and shoot the person in the back as they ran away for it to qualify as murder. At what point is it too much, rape? Torture? Maybe after a few months of abuse, would that be too much?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I don't accept that Tony Martin "murdered" that burglar in cold blood.

    Then you can't read, either that or you're an idiot who refuses to accept the facts.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Retract my statement? I'll do nothing of the kind. My view is he was a man at the end of his tether. His property had been burgled countless times, the police did nothing about it. It was unfortunate that the man in question died, but I will never shed any tears over the death of a criminal.

    Have you ever ilegally downloaded copyrighted music or software off the internet? Used illegal drugs? Copied a mate's CD? Broken the speed limit? Drank alcohol under age?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I don't accept that Tony Martin "murdered" that burglar in cold blood. And the moment a criminal enters someone's house, they should forfeit all their rights.

    What else would you call shooting someone in the back and then leaving them to die? Even Texas counts it as murder if after shooting someone you don't call the emergency services and they have the toughest home protection laws in the States...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote: »
    Have you ever illegally downloaded copyrighted music or software off the internet? Used illegal drugs? Copied a mate's CD? Broken the speed limit? Drank alcohol under age?
    Not sure what those have to do with this, but the answers would be yes, no, no, yes and no.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Not sure what those have to do with this, but the answers would be yes, no, no, yes and no.

    Then you're a criminal as well. I suspect you want no one to shed any tears when you die as well?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Not sure what those have to do with this, but the answers would be yes, no, no, yes and no.

    Well then you are a criminal and dont deserve to have rights.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Not sure what those have to do with this, but the answers would be yes, no, no, yes and no.

    You're a criminal too then. No tears shed when you die matey.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    Well then you are a criminal and dont deserve to have rights.
    Don't be ridicilous. I haven't killed anyone.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I haven't killed anyone.

    Neither had the kid that Martin killed.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Don't be ridicilous. I haven't killed anyone.

    :D

    You keep digging there SG.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Don't be ridicilous. I haven't killed anyone.
    Neither had the 16 year old burglar that Tony Martin shot dead.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Don't be ridicilous. I haven't killed anyone.

    You wrote "I will never shed any tears over the death of a criminal.", but you're a criminal too.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lea_uk wrote: »
    Neither had the 16 year old burglar that Tony Martin shot dead.
    There's no end to the twisting of my words here, is there?
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    You keep digging there SG.
    For a man who claims not to take my posts seriously, you are making quite an effort to reply to everything I say. I can only assume you have some kind of obsession with me. I will take that as a compliment.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    There's no end to the twisting of my words here, is there? For a man who claims not to take my posts seriously, you are making quite an effort to reply to everything I say. I can only assume you have some kind of obsession with me. I will take that as a compliment.

    pwned.jpg
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :lol:

    You are classic SG. That hole must be pretty deep by now, might have to start digging upwards.
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