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Homeowner arrested after burglar falls from window.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I don't accept that Tony Martin "murdered" that burglar in cold blood.
    Pity then than everyone else did.
    And the moment a criminal enters someone's house, they should forfeit all their rights.
    Not in a society that calls itself civilised, it doesn't.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I don't accept that Tony Martin "murdered" that burglar in cold blood. And the moment a criminal enters someone's house, they should forfeit all their rights.

    SG; I'll ask again, if he didnt murder the burglar what would a house owner have to do to class it as murder?

    What is too much?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    SG; I'll ask again, if he didnt murder the burglar what would a house owner have to do to class it as murder?

    What is too much?

    P'haps not bothering to call an ambulance - ooops that's what Tony Martin did (or rather didn't).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    :lol:

    You are classic SG. That hole must be pretty deep by now, might have to start digging upwards.

    I think maybe he's at Australia by now :chin:.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Wow, you lot really dont like an opinion differing to that of your own!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MancDan wrote: »
    Wow, you lot really dont like an opinion differing to that of your own!

    When we get a straight opinion it's not so bad.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MancDan wrote: »
    Wow, you lot really don't like an opinion differing to that of your own!

    It's worth remembering that this isn't some casual discussion - what's being described is that certain human beings are scum who others have the right to torture, abuse and murder. What's being argued is that a television is of more value than another living person - and that breaking into someone's house means that you cease to be human. Given those arguments and support of violence and abuse it's hardly surprising that some people become angry in this debate.

    In fact I'd argue it's a sign of the very best of humanity that people are so angry about the casual ending of human life so salivated over in this thread.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MancDan wrote: »
    Wow, you lot really dont like an opinion differing to that of your own!

    Well it is a debate board - it'd die pretty quickly if we all agreed...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MancDan wrote: »
    Wow, you lot really dont like an opinion differing to that of your own!

    Who does? Do you like (or respect) the opinion that all black people are criminals, that Hitler was a hero, that a woman should do everything a man says, that only news stories showing the government in a positive light should be permitted? I suspect not. People generally don't like or respect any opinion that they happen to disagree with (respecting the person giving the opinion isn't the same as respecting the opinion).

    Incidentally, I would argue that the first rule of the politics board,
    1. Please respect the opinions of others. Just because you don’t agree, doesn’t give you the right to make personal attacks on that person.

    is fundamentally impossible, (the first half of it, at least) since people by their very nature don't respect opinions. As Sam Harris says, you evaluate their reasons for believing what they do, and if you accept those reasons, you will agree with said opinion. If you don't feel that the reasons given are adequate, how in any way, shape or form can you respect or like that opinion? Personally, I think that it should read, "Please respect others right to express their opinion. Just because you don’t agree, doesn’t give you the right to make personal attacks on that person."
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just thought I'd give my opinion.

    Tony Martin commited pre-meditated murder in my opinion although I do believe he was driven to it and I am glad he "got off" with manslaughter. I can see why people are on the side of Martin after the whole press hoo-ha we experienced just after this courtesy of The Sun.

    I am all for people defending their homes and their family by using reasonable force and self defence because I am sure if you confronted a burgular in your house he wouldn't think twice about using a weapon on you if he had one.

    I have been burgled myself and I felt so violated but there's no way I would ever be able to live with myself if I took somebody's life purposely or in self defence over a few laptops and some DVDs.

    The police must have reason to arrest this man and quite rightly too if he pushed this guy out of a window. What I don't condone is such cases as the one in America where a burgular fell through a skylight onto a kitchen knife, sued and won.:eek2:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The only good thing that came out of the whole Tony Martin thing, from what i've seen is a decrease in burglaries where the burglar believes the homeowners are in, instead waiting until they'e gone to work.

    If the burglar was pushed out the window in self defence then fine, bastard got what he deserved. If it was punishment then i'm still of the opinion it is his own fault although the homeowner will need to face some sharp questions.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »

    If the burglar was pushed out the window in self defence then fine, bastard got what he deserved. If it was punishment then i'm still of the opinion it is his own fault although the homeowner will need to face some sharp questions.


    i guess it also brings up what is self defence, if i was in a 4th floor flat i would have no problem with the person going out the window to defend my family, also im nto going to lock myself into a room while he/she helps themselfs to my stuff, i would confront them, i wold make sure they couldnt get my stuff out of the flat and if it come to it i would do what ever it takes
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Territt wrote: »
    i guess it also brings up what is self defence, if i was in a 4th floor flat i would have no problem with the person going out the window to defend my family, also im nto going to lock myself into a room while he/she helps themselfs to my stuff, i would confront them, i wold make sure they couldnt get my stuff out of the flat and if it come to it i would do what ever it takes

    But how much is too much? Obviously if we are debating this and your feeling is the law needs to be changed so that the house holder has more freedom how much is too much? Torture? Rape?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How much is too much is the question....
    ifa burglar in myhouse has the good sense to run away I won't beat him, i'll chase him down and make a lawful arrest using whatever force is necessary. If I wake up in the night to find some tow-rag in my room however then i'm afraid the cunt will be sucking mashed carrots through a straw and wearing a catheter bag for the rest of their lives.

    The laws on self defence are not as much of a grey area as everyone thinks, the media blows stories like this out of proportion giving everyone the impression that if a burglar walks into your house you're best offering them your wife, because anything less will see you being sued. The reality is you can do pretty much whatever you want as long as you can justify it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MancDan wrote: »
    Wow, you lot really dont like an opinion differing to that of your own!
    They certainly don't. What I've discovered over the years is, the P&D boards is stuffed full of lefties and communist sympathisers. They hate dissent and anyone who doesn't agree with their view of the world. They insist on giving me a hard time, despite the fact I agree with them on some things. (such as the war in Iraq being a terrible mistake, that Bush is a disaster for the USA and so on...) It doesn't help that the moderators sympathise, if not agree with, with their viewpoints. What else would explain the fact the more right-wing users get such a hard time from them?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You get a hard time sg because you post ill thought out shite.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote: »
    You get a hard time sg because you post ill thought out shite.
    Which is a bit rich coming from you. You never give a straight answer to any question, and you never waste any opportunity to insult someone, whether you agree with them or not.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You post ill thought out shite like on this thread. You then chuck yer toys out yer pram when it's pointed out to you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote: »
    You post ill thought out shite like on this thread. You then chuck yer toys out yer pram when it's pointed out to you.
    Have you ever thought about becoming an MP? Your skills at evading the question are truly impressive. I could see you in the Cabinet in a few years time. They could put you in charge of drugs policy. Might get something sensible done about it for once.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You haven't asked me a question you plank.

    See what I mean about ill thought out shite?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    They certainly don't. What I've discovered over the years is, the P&D boards is stuffed full of lefties and communist sympathisers. They hate dissent and anyone who doesn't agree with their view of the world. They insist on giving me a hard time, despite the fact I agree with them on some things. (such as the war in Iraq being a terrible mistake, that Bush is a disaster for the USA and so on...) It doesn't help that the moderators sympathise, if not agree with, with their viewpoints. What else would explain the fact the more right-wing users get such a hard time from them?

    Racism, sexism, support for muder, violence, intolerance, dictorships, slavery and other offensive, illegal and unpleasant views cause moderators to take action.

    When one poster says - 'Niggers are all stupid' and one poster says 'Lesbians should be allowed to adopt and all property is theft' then it's hardly surprising the former gets delt with and not the latter.

    It would also help if you didn't contradict yourself - the amount of threads that go the same way - you make a reactionary comment, someone criticises it, you deny you ever made, someone points it out, you say your just being picked on and it's all the fault of the 'leftie' conspiracy... it's pretty much nearly every thread. I honestly think things would be improved if you re-read what you were posting each time, just to make sure its really what you mean.

    People are harsh on you, but your posts seem to actively seek out that treatment at times. It's also worth remembering the numerous users have been banned for bullying you and other new users, and not one of them posts in politics, where people are far less bitchy than they can be on the rest of the site.

    Expression does seem an in issue though. Some of your most racist comments, especially around Muslims and terrorism were clearly problems of expression that you later deleted yourself - but if you've already posted it then that's what people will respond to.

    As to the bickering, stop it Blagsta, stop it Stargalaxy
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Claims that I am racist are disingenious and fails to take account for the countless times I've spoken out against it. For example, I have repeatedly spoken about the British National Party, referring to them as "crackpots", "racists" and "scum", to name but three. I have also spoken out in favour of Britain being a racially diverse country, I have condemned attacks on individual races, I have condemned the ethnic cleansing that went on in Bosnia a few years ago, I have condemned Hitler and the evil of the Final Solution. My record shows clearly I'm no racist and take an active line against it.
    Jim V wrote: »
    I honestly think things would be improved if you re-read what you were posting each time, just to make sure its really what you mean. People are harsh on you, but your posts seem to actively seek out that treatment at times. It's also worth remembering the numerous users have been banned for bullying you and other new users, and not one of them posts in politics, where people are far less bitchy than they can be on the rest of the site.
    Any suggestions that might improve my posts (which aren't always the most productive or helpful) will be taken on board.
    Expression does seem an in issue though. Some of your most racist comments, especially around Muslims and terrorism were clearly problems of expression that you later deleted yourself - but if you've already posted it then that's what people will respond to.
    Those comments were ill-thought and inappropriate, and I've apologised several times for them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not talking about your posts in the earlier section of my post SG, and obviously don't want this to descend into a thread off the original topic, but the earlier comments are examples of why in general a far right poster is more likely to break the rules than someone on the far left. It wasn't a reference to you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    They certainly don't. What I've discovered over the years is, the P&D boards is stuffed full of lefties and communist sympathisers.

    Do you actually understand the terms you use? As far as I know Blagsta is the only person who could be called anything near a 'communist sympathiser'.

    And many of the people who have commented about your views in this thread are from the Right.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Apologies about the editing, I originally posted a half-completed version of this post. My mistake. :blush:

    Back to the thread... earlier today, I had another look at the story about Tony Martin. According to Wikipedia, he has since his release "appeared on the platform of the United Kingdom Independence Party and has also endorsed the British National Party. Both parties have advocated changes in the law to stop prosecutions of people attacking intruders, as well as less restrictive firearm controls.". Suddenly, I feel uneasy about all this. The BNP were obviously trying to latch onto people's fears, which is what far-right parties always do, but the fact he was prepared to associate himself with these basketcases implies he isn't the "great" man that I originally considered him to be. I'm still not absolutely convinced he deliberately set out to kill Fred Barras, but I was wrong to say he's misunderstood. There's obviously something not right about him.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    They certainly don't. What I've discovered over the years is, the P&D boards is stuffed full of lefties and communist sympathisers. They hate dissent and anyone who doesn't agree with their view of the world. They insist on giving me a hard time, despite the fact I agree with them on some things. (such as the war in Iraq being a terrible mistake, that Bush is a disaster for the USA and so on...) It doesn't help that the moderators sympathise, if not agree with, with their viewpoints. What else would explain the fact the more right-wing users get such a hard time from them?

    I know, I'm so left-wing that I vote Tory :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    At face value, it's ridiculous that somebody can be prosecuted for anything that happens to a burgalar in their house. Like here at work (aquatics shop), I have my dog with me - he's a dobermann - yes, yes, steriotypical dobermann image... but he's not a guard dog, just a family pet who comes to work with me. But if I put a sign up saying "beware of the dog" - I can get sued if somebody opens the gate and comes round into the staff area, and he bites somebody... for apparently admitting to owning a dog that is dangerous and could bite. Yet if I don't display a sign, I can get sued for not warning somebody if they broke in past the gates to the till and office area. Ignoring the fact that this dog actually couldn't beat his way out of a wet paper bag if he had to, bless him.

    If somebody is on your land or property, where they obviously shouldn't be, and they injure themselves, then it's their own daft fault. Somebody I know had the police come round to investigate him after he hit and knocked out a mugger after he stole a lady's handbag on the high street and tried to do a runner with it. The mugger pressed charges on the guy who defended the lady!!

    It's a mad world we live in really..
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    At face value, it's ridiculous that somebody can be prosecuted for anything that happens to a burgalar in their house. Like here at work (aquatics shop), I have my dog with me - he's a dobermann - yes, yes, steriotypical dobermann image... but he's not a guard dog, just a family pet who comes to work with me. But if I put a sign up saying "beware of the dog" - I can get sued if somebody opens the gate and comes round into the staff area, and he bites somebody... for apparently admitting to owning a dog that is dangerous and could bite. Yet if I don't display a sign, I can get sued for not warning somebody if they broke in past the gates to the till and office area. Ignoring the fact that this dog actually couldn't beat his way out of a wet paper bag if he had to, bless him.

    If somebody is on your land or property, where they obviously shouldn't be, and they injure themselves, then it's their own daft fault. Somebody I know had the police come round to investigate him after he hit and knocked out a mugger after he stole a lady's handbag on the high street and tried to do a runner with it. The mugger pressed charges on the guy who defended the lady!!

    It's a mad world we live in really..

    So what your saying is that if you dog is out of control and bites someone you can get sued? funny that... :chin:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So what your saying is that if you dog is out of control and bites someone you can get sued? funny that... :chin:

    Yes, yes that's exactly what she said.... :rolleyes:

    Are you just out to antagonise?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know, I'm so left-wing that I vote Tory :rolleyes:

    Hug a hoodie and all that. :p
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