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Same with European... You can't compare Irish culture to Slovakian culture with a sweeping term.
I can only speak of Ghana and Nigeria, but these countries are more conservative than the West and generally more religious.
Those two countries are such a small representation of africa.
I started laughing from the "like ice cream" point onwards
OK, so you've no intention of answering.
Can you state the contrary?
Just because someone else can disprove your point, doesn't mean its possible to make a sweeping generalisation of a whole continent based on two countries, you are just as if not more responsible for backing up your own argument as other people are for disproving it imo
Though much like bigger nations, they also have hypocritical attitudes towards topics such as sex. Take the USA, for example. A country with a massive right-wing Christian following, yet also a country that produces more pornography than any other in the world.
Now let's take AIDS, which has blighted much of Africa. Apparently, the spread of AIDS is because Africans are apparently not as educated as we are. It's also apparently because of the evil Catholic Church teaching people not to have sex outside of marriage. Perhaps, if people don't wish to see AIDS spreading, they should wear condoms or alternatively, stop shagging everything that moves?
Now let's see who'll be the first poster to come along and call me a racist.
I'm not going to call you a racist - well not yet, anyway. But I would like you to clarify your point here, because I don't quite get it.
Are you saying that the AIDS epidemic in Africa is caused by people there "shagging everything that moves"?
And are you defending the Catholic church's role in the spread of AIDS by arguing that it's not Catholicism's stance on extramarital sex that has contributed to the spread of AIDS, it's the fact that people don't wear condoms?! Because last time I heard, the Catholic church weren't too crazy about condoms, either. So if people aren't using condoms, the Catholic church has got something to answer for there.
Bah, can't believe I took the bait. I'm so weak!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-condoms-aids
Your own opinions, SG... but not your own facts.
The Catholic Church's view is don't have sex outside of marriage. Seems fair enough, except obviously to Grauniad readers. But if people really feel the need to get it on, they should be using contraception.
The way to deal with this problem is to deal with the bigger problem. Mainly the severe poverty in Africa. Remove trade barriers and give Africans the chance to get themselves out of that poverty. This will see many, many problems that Africa suffers from being dealt with, including this one. It will also mean the Grauniad not having to drone on about the "guilt" that us Westerners should apparently feel about Africa.
Oh, and don't bother asking me for a defence of the Catholic Church or the Pope. Every day that man remains in charge of the world's Catholics is another bleak day.
I would tell you why you're wrong but I sense it would be totally pointless.
So then, by that logic, the fact that Africa has a far bigger AIDS problem than say, Europe, can be mainly attributed to the fact that people in Africa are far more promiscuous than people in Europe.
Do you really think that's a sensible hypothesis?
If not, might it then be the case that people "shagging everything that moves" is not in fact the main cause of the African AIDS epidemic?
They also have a pretty well known policy on condom use, which you are choosing to ignore because it doesn't fit with you ridiculous thesis on this topic. If you think that the AIDS epidemic in Africa can be attributed to people not using condoms, then you might want to wake up and recognise the role the Catholic church has played in that.
Oh, and the idea that there is some consensus among everybody except Guardian readers that it is fair enough to expect adults not to have sex outside of marriage, is hilarious!
Many Africans can't do that, you know. Tesco haven't branched out into the Sahara Desert yet, though they seem to be everywhere else. You clearly haven't studied much history, then. Until around 50 years ago, having sex outside of marriage was pretty rare. Besides, marriage works as an institution. It's not perfect, but it's good for individuals and good for society.
I'm not saying we should go back to the age when children who were born out of wedlock should be condemned or frowned upon, but I do think something has been lost in that time.
Now then, let's see your true colours come out.
I smell bullshit!
Now, that's a perfectly valid comment to make, and I'm not doubting the truth of it, but the idea that it's all to do with promiscuity makes me sad.
One of the biggest problems in the AIDS problem in Africa is the people who, knowing they have AIDS, will go out and rape other women or infect prostitutes, who then pass it on to other clients.
There have been cases in the western world where men have been charged (although mostly not convicted, it seems: http://www.aegis.org/news/wsj/1997/WJ971101.html) with murder for knowingly having unprotected sex with the virus, so I'm sure you can imagine the numbers of people who do things like that in Africa, where they don't have access to contraception or to the kind of healthcare we've come to expect here.
The idea that the epidemic is all just an issue of contraception and restraint annoys me, because you know as well as I do that there are people in this world who are malicious and cause deliberate harm to others, and that is a big big problem there.
Completely agreed with you, as it happens.
*shrug* I don't know a great deal about it, but I think it is wrong to say that it's JUST religion (although that does play a huge part), or JUST contraception or JUST anything, because it's a whole big steaming shitpile of problems all making it worse.
But before I sign off, let me just demonstrate why you are being exceptionally difficult and frustrating to debate with. You have argued in this thread:
(1) That it is false to blame the Catholic church's stance on premarital abstinence for the African AIDS epidemic.
(2) That the AIDS epidemic can be attributed to people in Africa not using condoms.
And then consistently ignored the very salient point:
(3) That the Catholic church is also anti-condom use.
I don't know why you keep ignoring that point, except maybe it would entail some kind of retreat, or acknowledgement that your position in (1) isn't entirely correct or coherent.
It makes arguing with you futile though, so I'm giving up, for this thread at least.
I think the Catholic Church's line is blurred on this, but I wouldn't expect anything else. They say - don't have sex outside of marriage. Seems a fair enough view to hold to me. Many a person has held that view ever since Christianity and its various strands appeared over the last few thousand years. Now, it's well known that Catholics don't especially like contraception, to say the least. This Pope is, without a doubt, an utter idiot - what else can one say about a man who believes condoms would actually make things WORSE? So as far as I'm concerned, any similiarties between my view and that of the Church ends there.
Next, I am told I've been arguing "that the AIDS epidemic can be attributed to people in Africa not using condoms". I think that's a pretty big factor, don't you? Condoms help prevent a large number of STDs, including HIV/AIDS. That much I believe.
As for me apparently ignoring the fact "the Catholic church is anti-condom use", see the first paragraph. I think the Church's line is rather idealist on this matter. My view is - people really shouldn't be shagging everything that moves, but if they must, they should use protection. I can't see what's so unreasonable about that.