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Age wage difference
**helen**
Deactivated Posts: 9,235 Supreme Poster
Do you think it's out of order that the minimum wage differs depending on your age? Our latest ranter has a lot to say on the issue..
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
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Comments
Last year my best mate and I were going to travel round Europe over the Summer. I managed to save enough money on my crappy wage. He, on the other hand, had been earning £7-something or other and han been buying lots of fancy clothes and whatnot because he was confident that he would easily have the money as he earned double what I did. We ended up not going because he had no money because he had to pay for his car insurance and his clothes spending had taken the money he should've had left over.
They discriminate against me because I'm older.
It works both ways.
The Government's approach to the minimum wage is utterly half-arsed and retarded. They claim that the reason 16 to 21 year olds have a lower minimum wage is to encourage them to go to university. Elsewhere in the system, students are bullied during their college courses into applying for university places, regardless of whether it's the best thing for them or not. We also have the government's latest propaganda pieces being broadcast on TV - Joseph Goebbels himself would have been proud of such misleading adverts. Apparently, a university degree will help people in their careers. Oh yeah?
Tell that to the hordes of graduates who will find themselves on the dole or menial jobs this summer. Tell those people who have gone on a debt spree in order to fund their degree that it was worth it when they are unable to find a job with it. The problem has existed for years, and will be exacerbated further by the recession. Now the government is talking about helping graduates out by giving companies bungs in order to take on staff. And what are they gonna do exactly? Employers are not going to hire people simply so they can sit on their arses all day. There's a recession on, dontchaknow?
A 16-year old shop assistant does the same job as one who is 32 years old - I see no reason why they should be paid differently. The minimum wage should begin at the age of 16 and there should only be one grouping. It's time for government to stop interfering in people's lives.
I disagree. Why shouldn't students - who, if they are working, aren't going to be working full-time, or anywhere near close to - get 10% off their jeans and t-shirts? I understand your issue with railcards and if rail fares weren't the extortion that they are I would agree. I'm sure you get more privileges being older that younger people don't as well.
Such as?
You get to shake your fist and shout "You goddamn kids better get off my lawn!". Plus, old person naps.
To be fair, I do agree that if people who are working full time were to all earn the same wage then it would be unfair for younger people to pay less, but I still think students should get some sort of discount.
Um, because there's no way they can earn as much, even if the minimum wage amount was universal? No, nobody forced them, but why should they not be able to buy things they need/want just like other people just because they chose to continue their education?
Well I have to approve of that. Those darn kids.
By your own admission, a £2.50 discount on a pair of £25 jeans isn't much. In that case, what is the point of the discount at all? Companies aren't doing it just cos they think students are lovely and cuddly - they're doing it cos they think students will be gullible enough to come in and buy their crap.
To be honest, SG, just because you don't want to go to uni doesn't mean that everyone who goes to uni is only going to get themselves a better job. If I was doing that I would have done an education degree, but I'm not. I'm doing two degrees because I want to have had the experience of learning from some excellent lecturers who will teach me things I wouldn't otherwise have found out for myself.
KHSS is right, you are bitter .
I think everyone doing the same job should be paid the same. Given the economic climate, the fact it has been and will continue to be very difficult for first time buyers to get on the property ladder, and the fact that the cost of living is constantly rising, it seems even more important that young people should be given a fair wage.
It's a method of profit maximisation (price discrimination). Don't think for a second OAP train ticket prices and student discounts are done out of kindness.
What, like getting taxed to fuck? Having to pay a mortgage? The only benefits to actually being over 18 are being able to drink and being able to watch 18 rated movies.
The minimu wage is only an issue for people if they take a job that pays minimum wage. Yes I know some people won't have a choice about what sort of work they do, but for those who leave school and start a career, and don't end up working in a shop, minimum wage doesn't exist.
If young people want to be paid the same then the government needs to scrap the perks available to young people. Why should I pay bucket loads a month and not get anything out of it whilst a 16 year old can earn the same but pay reduced tax and get money off travel, free condoms and everything else that goes with it?
What really got me when I started working was earning £3.73 an hour to do the really shitty jobs, while people older than me earned £5 an hour to do the same jobs. That is the problem.
I think the 16-25 railcard is a great idea, I am dreading the time when mine runs out though.
Whowhere, surely you have benefitted from being a young person once? You can't just have bypassed it and gone straight from being 15 to ending up as a 30 year old. You can't have the benefits and then complain about them, although to be honest the only benefit I get from being 22 is the railcard - I never got student discount as I refused to pay £10 to join the NUS. To me, that £10 WAS extra food or a bit towards my rent (and not another drink).
Would you want to, at 25, be earning the same as you were at 16?
I made £3 an hour at 16 as a glass collector and I clearly wouldn't want to make the same now. But why is it that if I went to do exactly the same job, I would now get £6 an hour or whatever the minimum wage is now?
There are quite a lot of employers that only want to recruit people under 21 because they can pay them less. Surely that's not right.
Not all people under 21 live with their parents and are just working for pocket money.
Exactly this. When I was at McDonalds, which, granted, does pay quite a bit over minimum wage but not exactly great, I was earning as a base rate £4.85. Someone in the same position as me but who was 30-something was earning in the region of £6.50. I did MORE hours than he did, I worked harder and better than he did and HE got the promotion because I was a student. I was genuinely told that the reason I wasn't promoted was because "you'll be back off to uni in a few months", and I said to them if I didn't get it I wouldn't come back again.
Incidentally, there were people that got promotions at uni/just before they left for uni/before they fucked off for long holidays.
16 year olds pay tax too. Well, those who earn enough money to do so.
What reduced bus fares? Where I am, everyone pays adult fare after 16. Apart from those people who have bus passes.
Students are expected to live on a paltry student loan (or parents) and don't receive any income support / etc. Because of this, if you changed it as such, you would give students a much lesser income than what they receive if they're in a real job, but force them to pay full prices. Whilst this is good for the disgruntled workers who are annoyed that they don't get 10% off books if they spend over £100 at once, for the country it just puts people off going to education.
Could you live on £3500 - £6000 a year?
Besides, tax by definition isn't supposed to be you pay something and get something back. It's an unrequited payment. The government spends it where it needs spending most. Arguably, giving those in full time employment discounts on stuff isn't going to be the best need, because they will just then spend their extra income on luxuries, whereas as the other end students are more likely to drop out of their courses or drop essentials.
That's why people who don't work get money as well. Because, on average, they're going to buy things they need to live, whereas giving it to some guy in a big house who is complaining about too many taxes will just as likely gamble it on whether it will rain today.
The whole POINT of a taxation system is to redistribute equitably. If you are against that (and, if you think it through, that would be a daft position to take for you) then you sorely in need of an education as to the purpose of taxation.
I do not deny that students have an incredibly difficult time making ends meet. As it happens, I'm one of two people who is helping my sister fund her time at university, so I have some idea what I'm on about. But students are far from the only group who have got it tough, especially in these times. Well, of course they are. Extending that argument, a person who is on Jobseeker's Allowance is unlikely to be spending their money on a new plasma television, even with a 2.5% cut in VAT on it.
Besides, the guy who has a big house probably won't be complaining about paying too much in taxes - he'll be the one who's hired an accountant or lawyer to find legal loopholes to get out of paying his extortionate share. Did you know that, out of all those who are meant to pay tax at 40p in the pound, less than half actually do? The rest use legal loopholes in order to get out of paying the full amount. Hence why the Government's imminent introduction of a 45p tax rate shows New Labour are clearly detached from reality. Well, I'm against using the tax system as a method for redistribution. I suppose I'm in need of re-education, according to your post. I view redistribution as nothing less than social engineering. A tax system should be in place purely to collect the money the government needs. Government should only take the amount of tax they need, deliver the services they're paid to deliver and shut the fuck up in the meantime.
Mmmm. Anyway, I agree that students should get discounts. I'm no longer a student but I don't go about getting all arsey because I don't get my 10% off in Topshop! It doesn't make much of a difference anyway when you are earning a proper wage. As a student though, every penny counts.
As for wages, I agree with it. When I was 15, I was earning £3 per hour. That did me. It wouldn't now. Also, with age, comes experience so why shouldn't us older people get paid more?