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neither of those extremes makes any sense whatsoever in relation to rape, so it's a pointless choice really. Are you suggesting that most rapes can be prevented? If so, how?
If you think having as much as possible of prevention with no punishment is better than having as much as possible of punishment with no prevention, then you think prevention is more important than punishment. And the other way around.
I'm not, it's only a thinking method based on imaginary circumstances. Read above.
I see exactly what you are saying and its a perfectly valid point. Obviously something like this would need to be handled carefully and be well thought out as the last thing anyone would want is a negative outcome like you've mentioned. Thats why I advocate more awareness raising, for example the advice already posted on this website.
Ok, I see what you're getting at there, so we should think of ways to PREVENT MEN from RAPING WOMEN (and men), note my emphasis there, rather than the emphasis so far in this thread of women preventing men from raping them.
Have you seen I, Robot?
I'd say not getting wasted is an acceptable "sacrifice", while living as a recluse either.
:thumb: OK see your point, IMO there does need to be more awareness amongst the general public about this. I always assumed opinions blaming women came from chauvinistic men but its disturbing how many people, male or female share these views. I remember a French woman expressing the opinion that the way women in this country dressed on a Saturday night, they only have themselves to blame for rape. I was outraged at this but this has been expressed to me since by a few other women when I've discussed this subject.
I'm not sure how we can change opinions like this but we need a massive effort.
The emphasis through this entire thread has been the victim of ONE circumstance of rape. If we take the theft analogy it's like, everytime car theft was brought up, people bleeting on about 306 owners setting the code to their immobiliser to the numbers from their registration plate.
Go on then, where?
Nobody has demonstrated anything of the sort in this thread.
For instance, I was once told a story by an intelligent, professional, young woman. She was having dinner with friends of her hers and her boyfriends, they'd all been friends for about three years, lots of trust between them all. The young woman found herself in the kitchen with the other lady's boyfriend, having a chat, normal friendly situation. She was sat on the surface by the sink and he basically pushed up her skirt and inserted himself into her there, silently. She didn't scream or run or do anything but say "get off" and push away on his chest. She didn't want to draw attention as the other people were in the next room, she just didn't want it to be happening. The next time there was a friendly get together she didn't go and told her rapist on the phone that she wasn't coming because he raped her, not in front of anyone else, no suggesting that she was going to report him or anything, just that she was no longer his friend. His reaction was to tell his friends she had accused him of raping her like that, and for the friends to turn against her and make aggressive phone calls to her, telling her she should take it back.
This is the sort of rape that I think the guy in the OP was refferring to. And one where I think people generally are less sure how to react to it, unlike the reaction we have to the first scenario. One of the ways we can try to 'prevent' rape might be to make this quiet scanario seem as abherrant as the first suggestion (to everyone I mean, even if we all think it's just as vile)
This is an appalling story and I totally agree with your suggestion of awareness raising K. I know all rapists are scum but I can't but feel sometimes that slimeballs like this deserve extra punishment for the betrayal of trust.
I don't have the answer, or think that women shouldn't try to keep themselves safe, I just get frustrated that that seems to be the first and only solution presented to the issue of rape.
It's difficult to respond to this as the attitude of the 'friends' and her colleague is incomprehensible for me. I do understand your anger now but now I'm wondering how people can be made more aware if even the woman she works with doesn't get it and she is more aware of these issues than the average person. God I'm depressed now.
What a crap excuse for a human being...
I did bow out of the thread, but if you look back a lot of pages I made a fairly comprehensive post with lots of different aspects. I think the only reason the women protecting themselves argument gets discussed and seems like the only solution proposed is because a lot of people pick up on it and argue that advising that implies women who don't take care are bringing it on themselves.
Here's my post: http://vbulletin.thesite.org.uk/showthread.php?p=2135765#post2135765
I didn't want to let this thread go by without commenting but I'm not very good at making my points.
Without the rapist there is no rape. It's a fairly simple concept.
By suggesting that a drunk has made themsleves vulnerable you are applying some blame for what happened to them. It is precisely that thinking which leads to some cases failing.
The only person to blame for a rape is the perpetrator.
But anyway: The above is fact, yet no car theft trial fails because of it. This shows that the problem is in rape trials, not in giving advice.
So you do actually think that if a person leaves their legs open, there is some blame on them if they get raped? :eek: :crazyeyes :shocking: