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nanny state...

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Also worth noting is the fact that in 1945 a US bomber plowed into the side of the Empire State Building causing structural damage on two of the floors and there was no global collapse then. The WTC was designed to far stronger specifications than the Empire State, I trust you can appreciate.

    The B-25 is a different sized plane with a different amount (and type of fuel), plus it would have been flying at a lower speed, different angle of descent etc, etc.

    Which isn't to say you're wrong, but the proof you're right isn't as strong as you claim.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Given exercises already underway with drones in the air, yes, the likelihood of an intended switch (especially given the termination of the commercial flights' transponder identification signals, and the fact that we KNOW flight 77 is claimed by NORAD testimony to have vanished from radar altogether for the bulk of its flight until just before it is claimed to have struck the Pentagon) which was pulled off is far more plausible than pilots who could not even fly cessnas without instructor assistance piloting modern commercial jet airliners.

    Obviously you are so rooted in simply denying it all that you refuse to even acknowldge the detailed explanation of implausibilities set forth in the testimonies posted by MR. Feel free to deny all logic and, as well, the huge distinctions between WWII aircraft operation and modern, complex failsafe-imbued commerical jet aircraft.

    The logical and physical implausibilities of the laughable "official" conspiracy theory have been pointed out and linked to repeatedly for any who have a real interest to examine the known facts of the day.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    The B-25 is a different sized plane with a different amount (and type of fuel), plus it would have been flying at a lower speed, different angle of descent etc, etc.

    Yep - a B-25 bomber weighs around ten tonnes. By contrast, a 767 like the ones that hit the WTC can carry nearly 80 tonnes just in fuel, and they were fully fueled for a flight across the continent.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The B-25 precedent is merely one piece of precedental data which, added to the body of of research and unprecedented structural collapse (by any claim of causation asserted by the bogus "official" coverstory) of the WTC towers, only strengthens the case for an unimpeded, independent, transparent and fully public investigation (with no shred of data or testimony allowed to be sealed or withheld) into all key actors both military and political on that day.

    That is what the effort of the 911Truth movement has ever been about and precisely what the purposely limited farce of the 911 Commission hearings sought to avoid at all costs.

    [edited to add: btw NQA, the following link details more of the 1945 crash. Youll note the facts that:

    1. The bomber was actually climbing to the avoid the Empire State and thus would have had to be accelerating;

    2. The impact was considerable despite wieght/fuel disparities between the bomber and modern commercial aircraft. The damage to the structure and the subsequent fires did not weaken that structure then just as much as the WTC impacts could not have brought down the buildings in the visible demolition style that they fell on 911.

    Those buildings were intended to fall come hell or high water and the logical explanation is not found in any report by FEMA or NIST nor in the mere repeated claims of the administration pundits.]

    http://history1900s.about.com/library/misc/blempirecrash.htm
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Regardles of how much fuel the modern commercial jet holds, we revert back to the simple fact that jet fuel cannot and does not burn hot enough to cause global collapse, and that into its own footprint, of any modern steel structure. In the case of the WTC fires as well we have the additional empirical facts of an oxygen starved fire (thick billowing black smoke indicative of smoldering, not raging, fire) and the recorded testimonies of firefighters on the critical floors who acknoweldged the fires to be controllable prior to the visual demolition-style symmetrical collapse.

    How many times these facts must be repeated - to get through to the authority worshipping naysayers - boggles the rational mind. :chin:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Given exercises already underway with drones in the air, yes, the likelihood of an intended switch (especially given the termination of the commercial flights' transponder identification signals, and the fact that we KNOW flight 77 is claimed by NORAD testimony to have vanished from radar altogether for the bulk of its flight until just before it is claimed to have struck the Pentagon) which was pulled off is far more plausible than pilots who could not even fly cessnas without instructor assistance piloting modern commercial jet airliners.

    If I was to put a bet on somebody being able to hit a skyscraper with a plane, my money would be on the guy who had been to pilot school, rather than the guy piloting a fantastical remote-controlled dummy 767 from the ground.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Voodoo Ray wrote:
    If I was to put a bet on somebody being able to hit a skyscraper with a plane, my money would be on the guy who had been to pilot school, rather than the guy piloting a fantastical remote-controlled dummy 767 from the ground.

    There's little point arguing with people like Clandestine. Everything is part of the conspiracy, even facts that dispute the conspiracy. Its like a form of mental illness.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Regardles of how much fuel the modern commercial jet holds, we revert back to the simple fact that jet fuel cannot and does not burn hot enough to cause global collapse, and that into its own footprint, of any modern steel structure. In the case of the WTC fires as well we have the additional empirical facts of an oxygen starved fire (thick billowing black smoke indicative of smoldering, not raging, fire) and the recorded testimonies of firefighters on the critical floors who acknoweldged the fires to be controllable prior to the visual demolition-style symmetrical collapse.

    Back to "global collapses" again. You sound like somebody who is repeating for the hundredth something they've read elsewhere. You're really not coming across as somebody who knows what they're talking about or who has done any original thinking of their own.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But the heat doesn't need to be enough to melt steel, only enough to weaken it so that it can't hold the weight it was designed to do.

    You can even repeat this experiment at home using a plastic spoon. Heat it up and you'll find it becomes weak and pliable way before the heat that it actually begins to melt at. I'm not a scientist, but I do know the same happens with metal
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    even facts that dispute the conspiracy

    This coming from blagsta who repeatedly runs to pictures of lizards as his idea of "facts" which dispute anything.

    Best stop looking in the mirror when referring to mental illness dear boy, youre projecting again.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But the heat doesn't need to be enough to melt steel, only enough to weaken it so that it can't hold the weight it was designed to do.

    But that's kind of what bothers me. If you have 4 spoons holding up each corner of a flat surface and light a fire under one of the spoons, you do not get an even collapse, you get a lopsided falling over.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You're really not coming across as somebody who knows what they're talking about or who has done any original thinking of their own.

    To any who choose to apply consistency of reason, an ounce of intellectual honesty, and the legwork many like myself have undertaken since 2001 to research the laughable implausibilities (dare say impossibilities) of the official conspiracy theory, the arguments stand on their own.

    The naysayers will continue to deny any evidence and consider themselves justified in their cognitively compartmentalized minds. Quite a sad condition to behold really.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So you think it's impossible that you could be wrong then?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    no fires raging ...firemen on the floor where there is a fire meaning no big heat problem in a ...fireproofed building ...designed so ire cannoot spread floor to floor ...three footprint style collapses one after another ...
    a collapse that can only happen with explosives ...it's all quite easy to check figures etc with other sources.
    if i cannot read the government line ...then read it from the angle of scientists engineers pilots etc and come to some kind of conclusion i would suggest you all stop reading and researching anything and everything ...also stop discussing politics.
    i give up.

    this administration has been proven to be lying cheating and mnipulating on a very serious scale from day one ...many people argued in here ...guess who has been proved right every step of the way regarding the truth?from election fraud to wmd's and invasions ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    this administration has been proven to be lying cheating and mnipulating on a very serious scale from day one ...many people argued in here ...guess who has been proved right every step of the way regarding the truth?from election fraud to wmd's and invasions ...

    I bet even 'ol Mama Bush herself recognises the current American administration to be a lying, cheating, manipulating bunch of bastards - but it's a mighty big step from there to remote-controlled 767s.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it highly improbable that I AND countless other researchers are that far from the truth, VR. The research conducted at length and the glaring inconsistencies it has turned up, coupled with the demonstrable stonewalling of any truly transparent investigation of 911 since that day by this admin suggests all the more that they are ones you should be scrutinizing, if getting to the full truth matters to you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I consider the full truth to be what is left over when the impossible has been eliminated - and I think a mid-air swap for a pair of remote-controlled 767s belongs firmly to the realm of the impossible.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Voodoo Ray wrote:
    I consider the full truth to be what is left over when the impossible has been eliminated - and I think a mid-air swap for a pair of remote-controlled 767s belongs firmly to the realm of the impossible.
    how about the controls of the original planes were taken over by remote?
    very easily done.
    seeing as many exercises were going on with the military using commercial jet liners as weapons ...it would be very easy.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Then I suggest you pay closer attention to the aerial drills that were underway during the same time period and inform yourself on US military remote command and control technology.

    It is all quite plausible and quite consistent with the known facts of those you would dearly love to believe were pilotting the fateful aircrafts.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    how about the controls of the original planes were taken over by remote?
    very easily done.
    seeing as many exercises were going on with the military using commercial jet liners as weapons ...it would be very easy.

    occams razor
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    occams razor
    what the hell are you on?
    how am oi making unesessary assumptions?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "those I would dearly love to believe were piloting the fateful aircrafts"? You're clearly a zealot - since you have such an army of knowledgeable, well-informed professionals backing your pet theories, can you point me towards a 767 pilot who believes remote-controlled 767s exist?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what the hell are you on?
    how am oi making unesessary assumptions?

    Occam's Razor
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    In its simplest form, Occam's Razor states that one should make no more assumptions than needed.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    More accurately "the simplest of two competing theories is to be preferred". Whats easier to believe - hijackers or remote control 767s?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    More accurately "the simplest of two competing theories is to be preferred". Whats easier to believe - hijackers or remote control 767s?
    whats easier to believe is the availble evidence.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    whats easier to believe is the availble evidence.

    Thats not what you're doing though is it? You've made up your mind then only taken into account the evidence that fits.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Thats not what you're doing though is it? You've made up your mind then only taken into account the evidence that fits.
    sounds a bit like your reading habits.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You're not making any sense. Again.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You're clearly a zealot

    Hardly, dear boy. Merely one with sufficient years in political circles to smell a criminal enterprise and to recognise the consistent orchestration of events called for by the real zealots now fully in control of all three branches of my nation's government.

    Again, your energies would be better served focussing on the major figures behind the PNAC, most now serving in this administration or advising it, than playing blagsta and running from logical and evidentiary consistency whenever it might call you to rethink your most basic assumptions about the "brand America" myths to which you apparently subscribe.

    As for remote aerospace command and control technology, again youll find that such technology is well in use in other military aircraft. Given the plausible switch of planes for drones used in the multiple concurrent aerial drills, the necessity for aircraft of a rough scale to a 757 only need be substituted. Conflicting testimony on the day itself had quite a few saying the aircraft they saw slam into the buildings were not passenger craft at all.

    Bait and switch.
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