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nanny state...

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    download Acrobat Reader then :rolleyes:
    You really are an arrogant little fuck eh?

    I can’t use PDF for reasons of software environment and hardware config, but you would rather post sarcasm than enquire why?

    You are unlikely to discover anything other than your own large intestine!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Personally, from viewing the pictoral evidence no I find it quite implausible. Jim Hoffman is but one of many researchers, many of whom may be in accord on some but not all aspects of the case. I take the meat and throw away the bones as anyone who applies critical reasoning would do.

    Its much in the way that I agree with Chomsky on his assessments of public perception management via mainstream media but diverge sharply with him on questions of 911.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So when it comes to The Pentagon, you believe the man’s such an amateur that he believes a 757 jet has crashed into a building when it hasn’t, but when it comes to the WTC, he’s a respected expert who you are willing to quote endlessly?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Having looked a little further into the essays of Jim Hoffman, I’ve found out that for years he was a strong proponent on the no-757 hit the Pentagon theory and wrote many essays on the subject, until 2004 when he changed his mind and decided a 757 did hit the Pentagon after all.

    I don’t understand how anybody could take the flip-flopping fool seriously after that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am in no position to comment on Hoffman's reasons for any reversals he chooses to make. One reversal hardly constitutes "flip-flopping" though. Let us remember he is but one researcher amongst many, not all of whom are unified on their assessments of every individual aspect of that day's events. Without a formal unhindered ability to obtain much of the evidence confiscated by federal authorities, the public research effort remains a laborious exercise in piecing together other lines of enquiry to build a logical explanation.

    The point of the link is to examine the oversights and feeble presumptions of the NIST report, which blag has so characteristically thrown up without an likely scrutiny whatosoever.

    Going back to remote control technology being quite long in existence i also present this NASA/FAA test conducted as far back as 1984 using a Boeing 720 under remote guidance...

    http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/gallery/photo/CID/index.html

    I would also point you to a certain Dov Zakheim, founding PNAC member (PNAC agenda signatory) and Undersecretary of Defence and CFO of the Defence Department. His prior corporate role was Corporate Vice President of Systems Planning (Sysplan) Corp, which developed, for military use, a remote guidance and control system applicable to any class of aircraft called FTS (Flight Termination System) in 2000.

    So much for "non-existent".
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You post up an essay by a guy as ‘proof’, I point out the guy’s a fool and you suddenly go off in a whole new direction.

    Bait and switch.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lunatics.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There are somewhat odd questions thrown up certainly, but there would have been just way way too many people involved in the plot if the government did it.

    Two men can have a secret deal as long as one of them is dead.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I reckon that’d be especially true in the USA – if there had been this huge plot involving thousands of people, there would have been a hell of a lot of them turned up to spill their guts on Oprah or Jerry Springer by now.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You have a bizarre sense of judgement on analysis if you simply dismiss it offhand because you dont like "the guy". Also considering I merely pointed the non-unified nature of public research, I see no justification for your assertion that I "have gone off in a another direction".

    The NIST report, like its FEMA counterparts are nothing more than expected federal whitewashes as have been all administration controlled excuses for investigations into 911 to date.

    Nice to see how you've completely sidestepped the substantiation of autonomous flight control technology, though. Quite telling of your own preference to avoid uncomfortable fact.
    just way way too many people involved in the plot if the government did it

    How do you arrive at this conclusion when the "official" coverstory would have you believe that 19 arab hijackers , backed by additional shadowy planners, managed to not only evade standard US intercept protocols (Al Qaeda now controls US air defences eh?) but also strike the most heavily guarded military installation (Pentagon) in the world without a single SAM missile being fired.

    No BB, only a handful of senior officials needed to be party to the actual planning with all other actors on that day simply acting as usual without any knowledge than what they were doing was part of the several ongoing drills they were trained to conduct. Much more plausible than the official farce.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You have a bizarre sense of judgement on analysis if you simply dismiss it offhand because you dont like "the guy".

    I was being polite calling him “this guy”. For several years he argued vociferously that no 757 had hit the Pentagon. Then, with the same evidence, he changed position and began to argue that a 757 had indeed hit the Pentagon. He’s a joke and a fool and a fraudster and nobody in their right mind would take him seriously. And I’m supposed to treat him like some kind of authoritative source on the collapse of WTC7?

    If somebody was to make a big song and dance about having found the Loch Ness Monster, only for it to turn out to be an old boot floating in a canal, you’d have to be pretty dopey to get all excited when the same person claimed to have found the Abominable Snowman.
    Nice to see how you've completely sidestepped the substantiation of autonomous flight control technology, though. Quite telling of your own preference to avoid uncomfortable fact.

    Do you think that, with your dedicated and tireless mouse-clicking and link-following, you’ve discovered some formerly hidden, shocking new facts that proves your theory? NASA experimented with a Boeing 707 in 1984, therefore it follows in logically that in 2001, four remote-controlled 767s were swapped mid-air for passenger airlines? Only in your world.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh VR, you do seek to avoid the discomfort of acknowledging both the existence of the very technology you and blag have claimed as 2non-existent" as well as its very plausible application on the day. More so given the impossible aerial maneuvres demonstrated by two of the 4 alleged hijacker-pilotted planes.

    Keep sidestepping, denial is apparently necessary to protect your precious assumptions of US MIC incapability.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Who’s sidestepping? Do you think you're telling me something new? I’ve seen those links similar to the one's you’ve provided plenty of times before. I don’t think remote-controlled 767s are impossible, but I don’t believe they exist, and I certainly don’t believe that the four remote-controlled planes that you believe turned up to be swapped with the passenger planes on September 11 exist.

    Very few people do believe that, in fact – do you think it’s because everybody except you and people who agree with you are stupid and blinkered?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Voodoo Ray wrote:
    Very few people do believe that, in fact – do you think it’s because everybody except you and people who agree with you are stupid and blinkered?

    That's exactly what he thinks. Has he called you "sheeple" yet?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What "nearly everyone" believes is hardly surprising given the repeated media assisted assertions (without any evidence ever presented) which routinely pass for publically accepted information on a matter, not least one of such paradigm-shaping magnitude as this.

    Again, unless you bother to dig into the record of the 4 simultaneous aerial exercises in operation within the same time frame, you are as unlikely to appreciate the number of dummy flights (22 in total) which had Air Traffic controllers confused as which planes were part of the drills and which werent. In that maelstrom, with quite existent defence sector remote flight technology at their disposal (and the absurdities surrounding the alleged hijackers), as "nearly everybody". Public perception management and mainstream burying of relevant information at its finest, nothing more or less.

    Being on the bandwagon is undoubtedly comforting and safe, but far from critically vigilant in the slightest.

    Once again we simply arrive, for all the glaring inconsistencies of the "official" farce of a story put forward in this thread, to the same wishful refusal to question the status quo that all these discussions invariably lead to.

    Have a nice day.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh look, our resident mocker again shows us how pathologically compelled he remains, even after declaring his withdrawal from the thread.

    Unstable as ever! :thumb:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    At one end of the scale, you have the 'official' version of events, complete with inconsistencies.

    At the other, you have the versions of events put forward by assorted male, internet-based obsessives, replete with remote-controlled planes, holograms, you name it.

    I'm inclined to think the truth is somewhere in the middle, but I've yet to meet a "9/11 truth-seeker" capable of drawing a line where the facts end and imagination begins.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nothing remotely imaginary about what I have put forward. Ive enough years in professional political and NATO related circles to make such distinctions, thank you very much.

    Try to understand that much of what you have lumped into your critique of 911 research is also active efforts from those with a vested interest in shutting down the independent public investigation so that it cannot advance to a fully judicial investigatory stage.

    A critical mind avoids what is factually implausible (autonomous control technology not falling into that category) and concentrates on what is, as I have done all along, demonstrably.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    delete
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh look, our resident mocker again shows us how pathologically compelled he remains, even after declaring his withdrawal from the thread.

    Unstable as ever! :thumb:
    LOL the guy is a twat! He does display some intellect and then he fucks it up by flip-flopping his behaviour. Now you see him, now you don’t. :D

    Ah well, anyway back to the issue.

    I notice at this juncture that no-one has mentioned Operation Northwoods. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

    Could this have been a rough blueprint for 9-11? :chin:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Northwoods goes to a precendented mindset very much existent within the US military establishment. Many would dismiss its relevance though by claiming that it never took place, but then it can be equally argued that it only came to light a number of years ago, considerably after the era in which those involved might have been called to account for it.

    So too I imagine ultimately, the independent research, now dubbed "conspiracy theory" will in large part be found to have been completely accurate long after the present band of criminals have retired/died.

    Such is the advantage of that wonderful built-in government safeguard "national security" for protecting the real criminals and monsters in their day.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe with the exponential growth in communication technologies, and if the public demand more from the freedom of information act, they will be called into account far sooner.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Unfortunately this admin has systematically rolled back much of the FOIA and continues to do so steadily. They have even begun reclassifying tens of thousands of documents previously de-classified, as the Northwoods document had been.

    This means that once reclassified, any further dissemination would be deemed a federal crime. Nice way to generate more prisoners for the largest domestic industry in America.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    so then...........erm??....will england turn into a dictatorship or not?.... :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    DEANO MAC wrote:
    so then...........erm??....will england turn into a dictatorship or not?.... :D
    we ran out of popcorn.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    DEANO MAC wrote:
    so then...........erm??....will england turn into a dictatorship or not?.... :D
    Aye/ Im gonna be dictator!

    Yeah! Bitchin'!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Clandestine is fnord a CIA agent fnord.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My my, he's descending into full blown psychotic delusions! :eek:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you can't see the fnord it can't hurt you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, we understand child, now run along and take your medication before you hurt yourself. :lol:
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