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Yes bacause it's always a case of tit-for-tat, one-for-one isn't it? :rolleyes:
Who mentioned elections?
But surely the general impression from Disillusioned and MoK is not that the Palestinians are too blame, but that both sides are. the ones who are blaming everything on one side seem to be blaming the Israelis?
And it may be at some point the Palestinians have to accept less land than what they wish and Israel will have to accept some degree of insecurity. Its called negotiation and short of Iran getting its hands on nukes, seems to be the only way the conflict is going to end.
Bullshit - end US funding of the bully boys and a resolution will be found quite quickly and painlessly.
Anyway - anyone who wears a Rolex deserves to be mugged, right? They share the blame for the mugging. Right?
Well it may be quick, I suspect it will only be painless if the surviving Israeli's can swim.
Given your political views I'm not sure if you see this as an allegory or some sort of weird redistribution of wealth. If its an allegory it doesn't work btw
Despite the fact that most white South Africans learnt how to swim in their private pools, it turned out that they didn't need to exercise the skill when Apartheid ended. They all used to think they'd have to though.
As an allegory it works wonderfully.
Someone has a Rolex. Someone else needs a Rolex, so they take it by force. When the original owner resists, he is as much to blame as the mugger.
Thats the argument here, no?
Of course, no-one funds the Palestinian terror teams...
Hmm, they're pretty low budget in comparison. Or are you going to argue that they received the same as the beneficiaries of the most US Aid prior to the Iraq fiasco?
Your point is what? That the little brown people should let the big white bullies do what they want.
Thats so damn 19th Century you know.
Only if you include the neighbours, thousands of years of oppression and the wiping out of most of one of the men's families...
Yes, I read it on a zionist website.
And the bible is literal and true, right?
So fucking what?
Obviously, that's exactly what I said isn't it? :rolleyes:
You really need to learn to read, or at least you could improve your understanding of the English language.
BTW Which are the little brown people?
I must have missed the bit about the ANC calling for the destruction of all whites. Here was I thinking that they'd always been calling for a multi-ethnic democracy.
Yes, but who had the rolex? I assume your arguing it was the Palestinians, but it could equally be argued it was the Israelis in 1948 - they just beat off the mugger. Of course a more sensible view would be that the Arab-Israeli wars are slightly more complex than a Rolex mugging.
S'funny - the slogan "ONE SETTLER - ONE BULLET" was pretty damn pervasive.
Mind you, I seem to have missed the PA calling for the extermination of all Jews. Could you point me to it please?
I think you'll find thats it Hamas that most people regard as the threat, no?
Nice classy bit of revisionism there. It was 400 Palestinian villages and towns that were destroyed. And the complicated bits tend to be the zionist justifications - heh I even read that the Palestinians were Nazis during WW2 recently.
Only they weren't actually anything to do with what Hitler did in the death camps as it happens.
What were your ancestors doing 2000 years ago NQA?
PS -
If it helps, the muggers of course came from deprived backgrounds and could argue quite lucidly why they had a right to the watches. They even had a certificate from some holy deity that said they rightfully owned all the rolex watches in the world.
Indeed. And most credible historians seem to confirm that. Benny Morris widely considered one of the most authoritative historians on this topic does. His opinions are based primarily on declassified documents and he has consistently rejected the standard Zionist history that the Palestinians and Arabs are to blame for everything and the standard Arab history that blames Israel for everything.
Blaming one side for everything is simplistic; this conflict is not as black and white as the extremes on either side make out. The likes of freethepeeps being an extreme on the Palestinian side.
Either way Israelis aren’t going anyway and a Palestinian state is at some point inevitable so both sides need to learn to live together side-by-side in peace.
You go over it page after stupid page, not one of you actually debating just stating and re-stating your postion over and over. Its totally pointless.
The truth about Barak's "generous" offer
In other words, utter rubbish.
Islamists are not Muslims.
Indeed - the point about this thread was to highlight the global threat of Islamism and the solutions needed to eradicate it. Instead it has been sidetracked by the Israel-Palestine sideshow.
How do the actions of the west have anything to do with the barbarity in my original post?
It may suprise some of you to learn that the West is not the cause of all the evil in the world, not the Great Satan. It is in fact the most enlightened and civilized form of society humanity has ever known.
Rubbish.
Did I say it did?
Are you in training to be Worzel Gummidge?
It may surprise to to learn that the West is not perfect. But how about answering my actual point?
Errrr...its true actually. Look it up. Iraq was quite a secular society and Saddam squashed any of that nonsense quite effectively and viciously.
Er thanks for the link. However, I'd generally consider Benny Morris one of the most respected historians on Israel/Palestine to be more credible than 'doublestandards.org'.
You've hit an intersting point there - that Israel may as well become the next state of America, the way its going.
Are you disputing the facts stated on that website?
Don't worry, they are stated by many others:
http://www.gush-shalom.org/media/barak_eng.swf
And I don't care if the website or those behind it are "biased". Facts are facts, and I hope you're not suggesting that the facts presented above are made up.
Which brings down to the same point: Barak's peace proposal was unnaceptable rubbish.
Debatable. In recent years Israel has hinted that it would like to join the EU.
Although I think it’s quite unlikely I think after the creation of a Palestinian state it could be feasible. Israel joining the EU is certainly a lot more likely than it becoming the 51st state. EU membership would make sense for Israel in that most of Israel’s trade is with EU members. Although the factors pointed out in that article make it all sound rather unlikely...If though the Conservatives got their way on what the EU should be; something more resembling NAFTA than the attempt at a super-state it's becoming I think they could join.
I haven't read into it in depth yet. However, at first glance I am more inclined to trust Benny Morris knowing him to be a fair and balanced historian on Israel/Palestine rather than a partisan website. Although I will look into it further when I have time.
Sorry, did you really say "fair and balanced?
Are you on drugs or something?
:eek:
I'd say it was an act of Islamic extremism which is completly unrelated to western foreign policy.
Who is that?
Did I say that?
Its ludicrous to suggest that the entire country was empty of Islamic militants.
Maybe there were a few...however they were far from active and I'm sure there are countless other countries in the same situation today. The sad truth is mat, Iraq was no terrorist haven before the war, now it is a water-hole for terrorists...so much for freedom and democracy eh?
The terrorists were ruthlesly crushed by Saddam, as they opposed his regieme in nearly every way - he was as much an ememy as America to them.
This is, Mat, a fact. The war was badly planned, executed, and the follow up plan didnt seem to exist. A perfect model of how not to liberate a country.
If you’re referring to accidentally regurgitating Fox News’s tagline fair enough…If you were questioning the credibility of the historian Benny Morris, I know it’s not like you but providing some substance would be helpful.