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Spot the difference

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    As I said - its not a deliberate ploy. It is however, the logic of capitalism. Switch on the news, you see it everyday.

    Because responses to disasters in communist/socialist countries have always been so brilliant?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Because responses to disasters in communist/socialist countries have always been so brilliant?

    Indeed, Chrnobyl being a prime example. Although it could be argued that there were no votes to be won there either.. ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/looters.asp

    Snopes gives the reasoning behind the different wording.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "Jack Stokes, AP's director of media relations, confirmed today that [photographer Dave] Martin says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store. "He saw the person go into the shop and take the goods," Stokes said, "and that's why he wrote 'looting' in the caption."

    Regarding the AFP/Getty "finding" photo by [photographer Chris] Graythen, Getty spokeswoman Bridget Russel said, "This is obviously a big tragedy down there, so we're being careful with how we credit these photos." Russel said that Graythen had discussed the image in question with his editor and that if Graythen didn't witness the two people in the image in the act of looting, then he couldn't say they were looting."

    So you see in the compensation culture how the reporters did actually chose their words VERY carefully and neither had a racist agenda?
    It was pretty clear that both photos were from different places! still your paranoia is understandable! These lefty papers do sometimes lie to prove a point :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    *DEVIL* wrote:
    "Jack Stokes, AP's director of media relations, confirmed today that [photographer Dave] Martin says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store. "He saw the person go into the shop and take the goods," Stokes said, "and that's why he wrote 'looting' in the caption."

    Regarding the AFP/Getty "finding" photo by [photographer Chris] Graythen, Getty spokeswoman Bridget Russel said, "This is obviously a big tragedy down there, so we're being careful with how we credit these photos." Russel said that Graythen had discussed the image in question with his editor and that if Graythen didn't witness the two people in the image in the act of looting, then he couldn't say they were looting."
    Excuses excuses.
    So you see in the compensation culture how the reporters did actually chose their words VERY carefully and neither had a racist agenda?
    One of them didn't chose his words as carefully as the other did he?

    Your obsession with "compensation culture" and "political correctness" appears to be limitless. There is hardly a subject you don't manage to drop the concept into. Very impressive.
    It was pretty clear that both photos were from different places!
    Was it?
    still your paranoia is understandable! These lefty papers do sometimes lie to prove a point :D
    What lefty papers are you talking about? :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They made a big thing about the race issue on Newsnight last night too. It's hardly a beacon of civilisation that country is it?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/looters.asp

    Snopes gives the reasoning behind the different wording.

    Hardly reasoning so much as hopeless excuse-making on the part of Associated Press.

    Devil: do you actually have a point. Your constant whingeing about "PC gone maaaaad" is rather tiresome, especially as it is just about completely irrelevant.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If he was nicking food etc then thats fair enuff. If someone was walking around with a tv or something then u cud call it looting.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Because responses to disasters in communist/socialist countries have always been so brilliant?

    :banghead:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    *DEVIL* wrote:
    "Jack Stokes, AP's director of media relations, confirmed today that [photographer Dave] Martin says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store. "He saw the person go into the shop and take the goods," Stokes said, "and that's why he wrote 'looting' in the caption."

    Regarding the AFP/Getty "finding" photo by [photographer Chris] Graythen, Getty spokeswoman Bridget Russel said, "This is obviously a big tragedy down there, so we're being careful with how we credit these photos." Russel said that Graythen had discussed the image in question with his editor and that if Graythen didn't witness the two people in the image in the act of looting, then he couldn't say they were looting."

    So you see in the compensation culture how the reporters did actually chose their words VERY carefully and neither had a racist agenda?
    It was pretty clear that both photos were from different places! still your paranoia is understandable! These lefty papers do sometimes lie to prove a point :D


    :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    :banghead:

    Elaborate please...........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Elaborate please...........

    Its a straw man...I never said that rescue efforts in "communist/socialist" countries have been great. Mainly because there have never actually been any countries that I would consider as communist or socialist.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah that old get out clause, always handy.............

    You implied that the poor response was the 'logic of capitalism' impliyng that it would not be the case or less likely to be the case in non-capitalist countries..........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Ah that old get out clause, always handy.............

    You implied that the poor response was the 'logic of capitalism' impliyng that it would not be the case or less likely to be the case in non-capitalist countries..........

    There aren't any non capitalist countries.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    North Korea?

    Do you think disaster management is very good there?

    I would say not according to reports of famines there recently........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    North Korea?

    Do you think disaster management is very good there?

    I would say not according to reports of famines there recently........

    Stalinist, yes, communist no. State capitalist you could say.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There aren't any capitalist "countries" either, btw.

    They are all feudalism but updated a bit. It's monarchies with disposable kings.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So a military machine can invade a nation thousands of miles away, but doesn't have the resources to support their own people?

    TBH I don't think that it's as "black and white" as some have suggested...

    They were prohibited form intevening by law. Congress had to authorise the use of the military.

    Posse Comitatus Act

    THis is why the national guard is used for American natural disasters( it is under state control), but the army isn't.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Stalinist, yes, communist no. State capitalist you could say.

    Quite, so you would say generally that N.Korea is pretty capitalist then?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Act embodies the traditional American principle of separating civilian and military authority and currently forbids the use of the Army and Air Force to enforce civilian laws

    So, as that website suggest, that law is about the use of the green machine for law enforcement, I was talking about the delivery of aid/rescue services.

    I'm not aware of any US law which stops the military from using is helicopters/boats etc to ship in water/food and ship out sick/injured...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Quite, so you would say generally that N.Korea is pretty capitalist then?

    Stalinist, which can be argued to be a form of state capitalism, yes. It certainly ain't communist, no countries have been. There have been pockets of communism/anarchism but they have all been defeated often by "communist" states (e.g. Stalin sold out the social revolution in Spain in the 30's etc).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So, as that website suggest, that law is about the use of the green machine for law enforcement, I was talking about the delivery of aid/rescue services.

    I'm not aware of any US law which stops the military from using is helicopters/boats etc to ship in water/food and ship out sick/injured...

    The military is under comand of the federal government. The law makes sure the federal government has no business intervening in state affairs, which is where the responsibility of this disaster lies.

    "Though a criminal law, the PCA has a more important role as a statement of policy that embodies "the traditional Anglo-American principle of separation of military and civilian spheres of authority, one of the fundamental precepts of our form of government."
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and you are so quick to complain about 'strawmen'............. :lol:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    and you are so quick to complain about 'strawmen'............. :lol:

    Was this aimed at me? Explain.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes it was.......

    Basically the old 'there has never been a communist stae so you can't criticise communism' argument is a 'strawman' in my opinion.........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Yes it was.......

    Basically the old 'there has never been a communist stae so you can't criticise communism' argument is a 'strawman' in my opinion.........

    Do you even know what a strawman argument is?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Do you even know what a strawman argument is?

    Yes "my strawman is better than yours"...

    "No, mine is"

    "Wanna fight?"
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minimi38 wrote:
    The military is under comand of the federal government. The law makes sure the federal government has no business intervening in state affairs, which is where the responsibility of this disaster lies.

    Maybe I'm missing something, but that site suggest that the PCA is there to prevent the federal government from intervening in the law enforcement rols of indivudal states.

    Now, providing that the army don't act as law enforcement officers (such a detaiining looters etc) then there is nothing there which suggests that they cannot fly over an area an drop food parcels.

    Indeed the website comments "The PCA proscribes the use of the military"as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws." it also mentions that "Exceptions-in-name allow the military to provide equipment and supplies, technical assistance, information, and training to law enforcement agencies. Such provisions constitute passive assistance to civilian law enforcement, which does not subject any civilian to the regulatory, proscriptive, or coercive power of the military." and "The doctrine allows the military ... to perform their military functions even if there is an incidental benefit to civilian law enforcement again suggesting that if not directly acting in a law enforcement capacity then there is no problem with the US military providing humanitarian support.

    There is also the specific "The PCA proscribes use of the army in civilian law enforcement, but it has not prevented military assistance in what have been deemed national emergencies, such as strike replacements and disaster relief. However, these emergencies differ in character from other exceptions to the PCA by their very nature as emergencies and by the duration of the military involvement.... Disaster relief, another common use of the military, does not seem to violate the PCA because it is not a mission executing the laws." which is pretty conclusive...
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    North Korea is not Stalinist either. It is a tyranny.

    Stalin did alot for his country, he is the reason the USSR ever was a superpower. You can thank him for the fact you exist too, without him, WW2 would have been lost. He made Russians proud of themselves, gave them a strong country that could defend itself, and industrial power. For all his faults, we forget all his sucesses and great acheivements. Why? Because the Media likes to tell us to do so. After all, the US Won the cold war. They get to tell history as they see fit.

    Kim has done nothing for his country. At all. Ever. Except manufacture nukes, increase famine, and of course, fail to maintain his T-34's.

    Wow. Better good as Saddam at this Tyranical thing.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    For all his faults, we forget all his sucesses and great acheivements. Why?.

    Eh I'm not sure what version of history you've read but Stalin was an evil mudering cunt on the same par as Hitler, his 5 year plans all failed horribly and he fucked the working class over something serious. He did nothing for Russia.
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