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Does God exist?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    apollo_69 wrote:
    you mean the actual event or why do i think god answered my prayer?.....

    I'm far more interested in the actual event.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    I didn't say that though.

    I said that there is too much that cannot be explained without factoring in the presence of a deity.

    I don't see the difference, but:

    Such as?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    I said that there is too much that cannot be explained without factoring in the presence of a deity.

    Factoring in a deity would raise just as many questions as it would answer...like, where the hell did you come from then?

    To quote Carl Sagan: "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off and say God did it."

    (not you personally Kermit - just in general, people have done).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't believe in any God. I don't believe in heaven nor hell.
    We live, we die. That's it.. That's what I believe.

    Ilora x
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is no proof for the Big Bang for starters, and not even a way of explaining how it happened without factoring in outside help.

    The same with the creation of life. I don't wish to argue that life as we know it was inevitable, but I personally feel it's a bit too much of a coincidence that life started and adapted so well.

    I don't think we have an interfering God, but I do think there is one there. I base my understanding on the Christian God because I've been brought up in a Christian society; I do think that each religion brings something new to the table in terms of understanding.

    I don't think a belief in God shows a lack of thinking or intelligence, and I find that view quite offensive.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    I'm far more interested in the actual event.

    lol i thought so, we could be here all day otherwise..........well like i said i left work a bit early cos i was pissed off, and about 2 minutes into my journey home i saw someone cycling towards me at a very slow pace, i thought nah it can't be mine thats completely wishful thinking.......then as he got a bit closer i saw it was darkish colour (mine's purple) mountain bike, but still i thought nah no way........he literally went right past me and i just stood there in shock.......went after him, said excuse me where'd you get that bike.......he replied very naturally, oh i just found it lying there at the train station, didn't i sweetheart? (was with his missus at the time).......i gave him a hard stare but im pretty good judge of character and i dont think it was him who nicked it, so i just explained that i'd just had it stolen (i was carrying my bicycle helmet in one hand so he couldn't really argue with that), and that i was about to lamp him because i thought i'd caught the thief..........my point is, i would never have gone down to the station to look for it, if anyone else had picked it up and gone another way, or if i hadnt been on that road within that time frame i would never have got it back.........i've put a lot of things down to coincidence in the past, but this was too remarkable for coincidence.......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    The same with the creation of life. I don't wish to argue that life as we know it was inevitable, but I personally feel it's a bit too much of a coincidence that life started and adapted so well.

    Is that however mainly based on Humans inability to understand the time scale over which it happened?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont beleive in god but I wish I did, it would be nice to be sure that all youve got to do is obay a few rules and your away with eternal after life,

    On a related issue please answer this, do ghosts in anyway prove or disprove the existance of god,
    If the soul exsists ie is more than just physical, some spiritual enterty that is different to the physical, if this exsists is there a god
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    apollo_69 wrote:
    it back.........i've put a lot of things down to coincidence in the past, but this was too remarkable for coincidence.......

    So he just gave it to you? How singular.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    So he just gave it to you? How singular.

    how do you mean singular? he was pretty surprised at first and said are you sure it's yours? didn't take long to hand it over though, he seemed a fairly reasonable chap, mid to late 30s, typical working class londoner......easy come easy go i guess........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont beleive in god but I wish I did, it would be nice to be sure that all youve got to do is obay a few rules and your away with eternal after life

    The hardship of following rules like "thou shalt not murder", eh?

    I can see why people believe in fate, but sometimes its easy to confuse fortune with destiny.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Is that however mainly based on Humans inability to understand the time scale over which it happened?

    And also the inability to look at the problem from a different angle. If life hadn't developed, then there's be no-one to ask the question - in effect we are asking the question simply because we exist. On a billion planets there is no-one to ask the question.

    If life had developed differently we'd be asking why it developed in that manner.

    It may also be the case that the Universe is naturally disposed towards creating life in the same way that bubbles are naturally disposed towards being spherical - long string proteins may develop because the Universe is conducive towards them doing so.

    In an infinite universe it all makes sense.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    apollo_69 wrote:
    how do you mean singular? he was pretty surprised at first and said are you sure it's yours? didn't take long to hand it over though, he seemed a fairly reasonable chap, mid to late 30s, typical working class londoner......easy come easy go i guess........

    Singular, as in 'this is a singular mystery Holmes' its an old term which I have picked up and trying to re-introduce back into common parlance, along with 'blighter'. Both are long overdue for a come back.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is why this debate is so singularly pointless.

    Theose who believe will go "OMG god exists k!!!" and those who don't will go "OMG god = lose!!11eleven!"
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Singular, as in 'this is a singular mystery Holmes' its an old term which I have picked up and trying to re-introduce back into common parlance, along with 'blighter'. Both are long overdue for a come back.

    ah as in peculiar?........lol too old school for me mate, never heard of parlance either although i can extrapolate its meaning from the context......we finished hijacking this thread?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    apollo_69 wrote:
    ah as in peculiar?........lol too old school for me mate, never heard of parlance either although i can extrapolate its meaning from the context......we finished hijacking this thread?

    Singular as in, out of the ordinary, something that is singular, not common. It is far from saying 'thats a lie' more like 'that is an uncommon thing to happen' except it makes you sound like a 1930's dandy, which surely is a good thing.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    I don't think a belief in God shows a lack of thinking or intelligence, and I find that view quite offensive.
    However this does not mean that god is alive today, or that he's the god described in certain religious texts found on this planet (if an alien civilisation found in Alpha Centauri believes god is a seven-headed lizard who advocates free sex, can anyone from earth prove them wrong?), or that the world was created in the manner described in said texts, or indeed that god approves or disapproves of certain practices and that we must obey certain rules.

    Even if god exists, and even if he's alive today, and even if he's more or less the god described in, say, the bible (as opposed to the thousands of other religious texts giving rather different accounts that no doubt exist across the universe) I cannot help but see anyone who believes the tales found in religious books are the absolute truth as appallingly naive if not lacking in the braincell department.

    That is to say, people who claim the earth was indeed created in six days as described in the bible, or that all mankind descends form a single couple created overnight by a deity. Or worse of all, that god actually gives a shit whether people masturbate, have sexual relations out of wedlock or enjoy same-sex relationship. In other words, people who take the tales found in Bible, Koran, Torah et al as 'the literal truth'.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin, as normal you confuse religious politics with God.

    People will interpret things in different ways. People will interpret things to suit their own advantage- sexual guilt is very useful for organised religion, which is why they all use it- but none of that disproves the existence of a deity.

    Personally I don't think the Bible has all the answers, and nor does any other religious text read by itself.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That is to say, people who claim the earth was indeed created in six days as described in the bible, or that all mankind descends form a single couple created overnight by a deity. Or worse of all, that god actually gives a shit whether people masturbate, have sexual relations out of wedlock or enjoy same-sex relationship. In other words, people who take the tales found in Bible, Koran, Torah et al as 'the literal truth'.

    Whilst I tend to agree that these are not bad things, the fact that some people use the bible to say that you'll burn in hell if you have sex out of wedlock doesn't disprove God. It might be that God actually does mean these things and many of us will in fact end up having a rather hot time come the day of judgement.

    You can't proove or disproove God either way.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Aladdin, as normal you confuse religious politics with God.

    People will interpret things in different ways. People will interpret things to suit their own advantage- sexual guilt is very useful for organised religion, which is why they all use it- but none of that disproves the existence of a deity.

    Personally I don't think the Bible has all the answers, and nor does any other religious text read by itself.


    what about multi god systems like greeks and romans?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what about multi god systems like greeks and romans?
    What about them?

    All they had was a God for every emotion. We just have one for the whole lot.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I believe there is a God and I believe in "Heaven and Hell"

    I believe that the concept of the 'Christian God' and 'Hell' are contradictory.

    I also believe that the idea of an 'omnipotent/omnicognescent God' and 'freewill' are contradictory. If God is omnicognescent (i.e. knows everything) then he knows what my next action is going to be. If he knows what my next action was going to be, then I could not have acted any different. Therefore the future is already set in stone and I am not free.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I still can't believe that some of you think God is some almighty being in the sky...that's folly in it's highest, if you're going to believe in a God, believe in a realistic one, and this idea of a devil in hell is bollocks tbh

    ETA: greeks and romans used gods to explain natural occurances and where they couldn't explain things scientifically, so if it was stormy at sea, the god of water was angry etc etc, we've learned enough now to know it's how the world works so that doesn't fit, maybe we'll find out there is a God or is no God, then we'll laugh at how foolish the believers/atheists were
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Whilst I tend to agree that these are not bad things, the fact that some people use the bible to say that you'll burn in hell if you have sex out of wedlock doesn't disprove God. It might be that God actually does mean these things and many of us will in fact end up having a rather hot time come the day of judgement.

    You can't proove or disproove God either way.
    My intention wasn't proving or disproving God so much as expanding on Kermit's comments regarding belief in God and intelligence. Of course someone can be intelligent and believe in God. But can they be intelligent if they really believe mankind descends from a single couple, that the earth is only 5,000 years old, or that masturbation or gay sex will send you to hell? I have to say they sound pretty thick to me...

    (Though of course in some cases they are actually rather intelligent; they just happen to be hate-consumed bigots who cynically use religion to further their odious agendas).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    This is why this debate is so singularly pointless.

    Theose who believe will go "OMG god exists k!!!" and those who don't will go "OMG god = lose!!11eleven!"

    Seriously, Kermit, if you spend any more time in "Anything Goes" then i think i'm going to make you take a basic language course so you can get a basic grasp on the English language back.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Aladdin, as normal you confuse religious politics with God.

    People will interpret things in different ways. People will interpret things to suit their own advantage- sexual guilt is very useful for organised religion, which is why they all use it- but none of that disproves the existence of a deity.
    I don't think I was. I was implying that even if someone believes in God and believes him to be the Christian God described in the Bible, they don't appear to be engaging all their braincells if they believe everything the Bible says- especially the Old Testament, which to be brutally honest is mostly a load of old bollocks, and a vicious, murderous, nasty and violent one at that...

    If God is really all-knowing, all-powerful and perfect then he surely doesn't give a toss whether someone is gay or not, so long as they are good, caring people. Yet the OT has more than its fair share of gay-bashing ''you'll go to hell'' threats. Anyone who believes in that doesn't come across as terribly intelligent to me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    But can they be intelligent if they really believe mankind descends from a single couple, that the earth is only 5,000 years old, or that masturbation or gay sex will send you to hell? I have to say they sound pretty thick to me...

    How do you know that they are wrong? What does your belief mean that you are more intelligent?

    Remember, you criticise them for believing what they have read in a book, what they have interpreted from that book but isn't our acceptance of science just the same thing... faith.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How do you know that they are wrong? What does your belief mean that you are more intelligent?

    Remember, you criticise them for believing what they have read in a book, what they have interpreted from that book but isn't our acceptance of science just the same thing... faith.

    i think it has long been proven that the earth is more than 5,000 years old, Jesus my gran is over 5,000 years old ffs :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because the evidence that the earth is billions of years old is simply overwhelming. It is nothing short of ludicrous and incredibly stupid to suggest it's only a few thousand years old.

    And whereas the theory of evolution might have not been proven beyond reproach yet (and then, what difference does it make if some people will ignore it, like they do with the age of this planet) what is also beyond doubt is that mankind did not descend from a single couple. Even if God had created mankind.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think a lot of questions have to be asked about Adam and Eve, like what language did they speak? did they just automatically know how to speak, did they come before or after neandrathals, we've learned so much about our own race that that can also be disproved, and as for sex before marriage and masturbation and gay sex, it seems a bit stupid for someone in these categories to burn in hell whereas a mass murderer can get into heaven if he repents for his sins
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