discipline in schools

Former Member

What next from this hideous left wing government?

If we only restored discipline in schools (the school I went to was complete chaos and discipline of any kind was not even heard of and most of the time teachers did not even turn up to lessons) then we would not have to do things like this.

wheres the evidence for this, schools have been the same for ages, the more zero tolerance we had at my school when i went, the more hidden the problems became

my maths teacher had best disipline he took people having occasional jokes and quite liked it, if people took piss he got really angry for them wasting the other students time, gave them referal note and left them outside

Former Member

I suspect that Slippy is falling into the old trap of thinking that things were better when we caned kids...

Former Member

Man Of Kent wrote:

I suspect that Slippy is falling into the old trap of thinking that things were better when we caned kids...

they were.

Former Member

Bring back corporal punishment I say! Things were definately better when that was around. Children just don't have any respect anymore

Former Member

I don't think you can justify a teacher beating a child.

Former Member

Renzo wrote:

I don't think you can justify a teacher beating a child.

we're not talking about a beating.
it's a well defined border where you go to far you feel pain.
but ...you modern people seem to only see pain as negative when in reality it is one of the best teachers we have.

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote:

we're not talking about a beating.
it's a well defined border where you go to far you feel pain.
but ...you modern people seem to only see pain as negative when in reality it is one of the best teachers we have.

true however it will be abused

didnt stop bad behaviour too well as well

how are kids more disrespectful, seen how adults treat kids as well?

we need more understanding across the board - yeh sure u may disagree with someones way of life, but noones perfect eh and as long as they arent breaking the law as such

Former Member

*Welshbabe* wrote:

Bring back corporal punishment I say! Things were definately better when that was around. Children just don't have any respect anymore

Yeah but do the problems start in school or at home?

Former Member

*Welshbabe* wrote:

Bring back corporal punishment I say! Things were definately better when that was around. Children just don't have any respect anymore

ah yes because my teacher taking a swing at me (and me in turn hitting him back) would create the most wholesome of learning environments. :rolleyes:

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote:

we're not talking about a beating.
it's a well defined border where you go to far you feel pain.
but ...you modern people seem to only see pain as negative when in reality it is one of the best teachers we have.

Hardly a well defined boarder. I was talking to one of my bosses, and he was telling me about his teen years. One day he rolled his eyes in class; the teacher had been getting frustrated with people talking and although my boss wasn't the one being disruptive, he ended up being the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. The teacher took him out into the hall and began to beat the living shit out of him. My boss just kept swearing at the teacher until the gym teacher split em apart. The teacher was told never to do it again, and what did my boss get? He was taken out by the gym teacher (an ex marine/wrestler/football player) and got busted over the ass with a plank of wood.
Well defined boarders might be what you call it. But I call it an uneven fistfight.

Pain serves as a learning tool only in cases where "you let the scars of learning take their course". Like when i put my hand on the stove burner, when i tried to jack up a car for the first time.

Former Member

I am all for more punishment in schools. Teachers can't do anything anymore or they'll get sued. I don't think that any reasonable person would say that they think kids should be beaten in school, but there is nothing wrong with more punishment and control.

I work in law enforcement and to be honest, I'd be more scared to be a teacher than to do my job. Some of the kids I work with tell me stories about school, it seems like the students have more control than the teachers (I know it's not like this everywhere, these kids live in the city and go to some pretty rough schools). Teachers are getting beat up left and right by these students..... where is the discipline? If the teacher hits back, the teacher gets screwed.

Former Member

*Welshbabe* wrote:

Bring back corporal punishment I say! Things were definately better when that was around. Children just don't have any respect anymore

Hang on, you're 23. How do you know that "Things were definately better when that was around"?

Former Member

Renzo wrote:

I don't think you can justify a teacher beating a child.

Nobody mentioned beating. Fair enough though, some teachers did go too far with it. Just the thought of the punishment of the cane was enough to deter most kids.

Former Member

How do you know?

Former Member

Blagsta wrote:

Hang on, you're 23. How do you know that "Things were definately better when that was around"?

Well I'm a teacher for a start and after doing a four year degree in teaching you tend to study behavioural aspects in children over the years!

Former Member

I asked you, how do you know if you're only 23? You have no experience of it. My g/f is also a teacher and has come to the opposite conclusion. In fact, I find it quite worrying that a teacher actually holds your opinions. I'm old enough to remember when schools did cane their pupils and believe me it didn't really have any effect on discipline.

Former Member

btw, since when was a PGCE 4 years?

Former Member

Blagsta wrote:

btw, since when was a PGCE 4 years?

B(ed) not PGCE

Former Member

OK, fairynuff. I still wonder though how you know that things were better when corporal punishment was allowed.

Former Member

Blagsta wrote:

OK, fairynuff. I still wonder though how you know that things were better when corporal punishment was allowed.

Because I've studied behaviour management (as indicated previously!) which covers different ways of controlling behaviour and therefore looked at corporal punishment in schools.

Former Member

I'd argue that "behaviour management" is a really shallow and ineffective way of understanding children and whats more is actually quite politically motivated because it removes the need for a deeper understanding of any social or economic context. Plus you're basically teaching kids that violence is the best way to get what you want.

Former Member

Blagsta wrote:

I'd argue that "behaviour management" is a really shallow and ineffective way of understanding children and whats more is actually quite politically motivated because it removes the need for a deeper understanding of any social or economic context. Plus you're basically teaching kids that violence is the best way to get what you want.

If you actually understood what "behaviour mangement" was about, then you'd understand that it's not just about physical ways of dealing with problems

Former Member

*Welshbabe* wrote:

Bring back corporal punishment I say! Things were definately better when that was around. Children just don't have any respect anymore

And if your wife hasn't got dinner on the table, why not give her a tap as well?

Former Member

*Welshbabe* wrote:

If you actually understood what "behaviour mangement" was about, then you'd understand that it's not just about physical ways of dealing with problems

Yes, I know exactly what its about. My point still stands.

Former Member

Blagsta wrote:

Yes, I know exactly what its about. My point still stands.

You would think, but the incidents of violent crime have increased in youths since it was abolished!

Former Member

freethepeeps wrote:

And if your wife hasn't got dinner on the table, why not give her a tap as well?

WTF I'm not talking about punishing children for pety things or for punishing them for no reason!

Former Member

But I bet that happened in the 'good old days' too. For every few that got a 'deserved' physical punishment, children or wives got it for no reason at all. Do you fancy going back to that sort of society?

Former Member

*Welshbabe* wrote:

You would think, but the incidents of violent crime have increased in youths since it was abolished!

So that means that there is a direct causal link? Hmmmm...what did they teach you on that B(ed)? Can you demonstrate a direct relationship? Using what research methodology? Or do you think it might be a tad more complex than that? Maybe the atomisation of communities, the rise of a neo-liberal individualist political consensus, the consumer society, unemployment etc might be more important factors?

Former Member

Tequila wrote:

But I bet that happened in the 'good old days' too. For every few that got a 'deserved' physical punishment, children or wives got it for no reason at all. Do you fancy going back to that sort of society?

No actually statistics show that its worse now!

We are in a worse society now. Wives and children still get abused or have I missed something?

Former Member

Blagsta wrote:

So that means that there is a direct causal link? Hmmmm...what did they teach you on that B(ed)? Can you demonstrate a direct relationship? Using what research methodology? Or do you think it might be a tad more complex than that? Maybe the atomisation of communities, the rise of a neo-liberal individualist political consensus, the consumer society, unemployment etc might be more important factors?

I wasnt saying it was the only factor. So what are your suggestions for better control in the classroom then?

Im not being funny but what are your beliefs on parents smacking their own children?

Former Member

*Welshbabe* wrote:

No actually statistics show that its worse now!

Can you provide them from a credible source lacking bias?