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If, based on the tenuous links that are claimed, we should accept the right of every Jew, including converts to return to their 'ancestral land ' then how is it possible not to accept the right of every Palestinian to return to their ancestral land?
YES THEY ARE! They originally stem from Israel! Their presence is documented in monuments which can be vistied this day today - before the diaspora. The Yiddish language is a product of Biblical Hebrew which was also used in the area. Israel is integrated in Judaism.
For fucks sake, they all originally come from billion year old pond scum, as do we all. So what?
Get a fucking grip. Pop quiz - which is the oldest group on earth?
You said that you had been studying theology right? Did those studies include the teaching of Hebrew? Cause I know in England you choose between Greek or Hebrew.
Now, should you have learnt Biblical Hebrew, would you then tell me that it bears no similarities to Modern Hebrew?
Cause I can with no proper teaching of Biblical Hebrew get the gist of what the Bible says based on my knowledge of Hebrew.
rolling stones
For you to suggest after the fact that the origins of the modern state and its founders can trace their cultural roots back to the Hebrews of old (unlike, once again, perhaps can those relatively few Arab Jews subsumed into Israeli society by mere fortune of their religious observance, unlike the 700-800,000 forcibly dispossessed Palestinian muslims and their perpetually victimised descendants) is again, intellectually fraudulent.
Perhaps you should have a read of Zeev Sternhell's work: The Founding Myths of Israel. It might open your eyes to much of the revisionism to which you clearly subscribe as fact.
You'd best learn the truth of the roots of Ashkenazism because you sadly appear to be so steeped in the preferred lies and myths of the Zionist architects of the modern state that you refuse to recognise historic fact.
Once again, lest you brush over it and continue with your false notions, I direct you to Zeev Sternhell's book. Perhaps a Jewish scholar on the subject might gain some mental foothold and awaken a concern for truth over ideology.
I also refer you to you to Paul Wexler's scholarly works:
1. "The Ashkenazic Jews: A Slavo-Turkic People in Search of a Jewish Identity". Wexler, P. 1993. Columbus: Slavica.
2. "The Schizoid Nature of Modern Hebrew: A Slavic Language in Search of a Semitic Past". Wexler, P. 1991. Wiesbaden: Otto Harrassowitz.
The man teaches at Tel Aviv University if you want to argue with him that the historic actualities are false.
Didn't you know that Judaism views converts to Judaism and born Jews as equal?
I have already stated repeatedly that they merely share an adherence to a religious faith which originated in the land.
The Zionist ideologues, who militantly pursued a clearly colonialist invasion from a wholly foreign European cultural mileu, had no legitimate historic bases for their myths of "rights" to the lands inhabited by an overwhelming majority of Palestinians whom they systematically drove out or killed to advance their vision of an eclusive Jewish state model.
That line of thinking wasn't immediately apparent when 6 zionist thugs had a mate of mine pinned up against a shop window, as they yelled at him repeatedly "YOU AREN'T A PROPER JEW........."
:sour:
After all he only has a Jewish father and a Jewish mother.
"A travel guide to Palestine and Syria, published in 1906 by Karl Baedeker, illustrates the fact that, even when the Islamic Ottoman Empire ruled the region, the Muslim population in Jerusalem was minimal. The book estimates the total population of the city at 60,000, of whom 7,000 were Muslims, 13,000 were Christians and 40,000 were Jews.
The number of Jews has greatly risen in the last few decades, in spite of the fact that they are forbidden to immigrate or to possess landed property," the book states." Joseph Farah, Arab-American journalist.
Of course as you know Clandestine in 1948 came the great partition and the UN proposed the creation of a Jewish and an Arab state – the Jews gratefully accepted the offer whilst the Arabs refused it and declared war.
Well I have no idea what incident you’re talking about. I can’t say I’ve ever seen gangs of ‘zionist thugs’ in London. I’m assuming this alleged incident you refer to occurred in London? Er anyway whatever, what’s your point exactly? Of course there’ll be many aspects of behaviour by Jews which don’t follow the religious Jewish line of thinking. I don't know what your point is, are you basing your opinion on Judaism on the actions of several Jews? If you are I would find that as stupid as judging Islam on the actions of Muslim terrorists.
Now as to the actual populations figures for Palestine beginning circa 1880
and further population comparisons of actual historic worth...
So without going on to the period of massive foreign immigration under the aggressive agenda of the Zionist ideologues intent on forcing their exclusionary state upon the already centuries long predominant population of the region, and the brutal atrocities, terrorism and area clearances perpetrated shortly prior to achieving statehood (see Irgun, Stern Gang), we can see that Mr. Farah and you are both dishonest.
But this data has been presented at least several times previously and here we are having to revisit it again, proving that Zionists must desperately cling to myths and lies to preserve their ideological presumption of superiority and some mythical divine right. Sadly there is nothing divine nor right about flagrant nationalism and its brutal disregard for the rights of others.
Youd think that a people who suffered vicitimisation under another group's presumtpions of exceptionalism should avoid visiting similar degradation upon yet another weaker group, but aspirations of power and control lead to the same results regardless of religious or national identities.
But that is all that I shall continue to provide on that score as its clear Dis would like to avoid dealing with the actual discussion which was underway as to the ethno-cultural Khazari roots of the founders of the modern state (i.e. Slavo-Turkic, not semitic as are the Palestinian people of the region).
Okay, my maths isn't great and I'm really not getting into the argument, but aren't those % a little fucked?
How can 399,808, from a total of 1.4m only be 2.8%? Surely the decimal is in the wrong place?
You don't wonder why in 1938 there may have been so many Jews in Palestine or that this may be related to events in Europe. And they did have historic roots (whether or not they had ethnic) as historically the area had been regarded by the Jews as the promised land. It wasn't somewhere they just picked at random.
Do we know how many of those Muslims were Palestinian, how many were Jordanian/Syrian/Egyptian. Turkish even?
To have done so by calaculated mass immigration and ultimately by brutal force, terrorism and ethnicide is inexcusable and hardly grounds for the concerted efforts to turn its victims into the supposed instigators which have persisted for more than half a century for rightly fighting back against all the exclusionary intent Israel's European founders held as core to their beliefs.
Plageristic? It was pretty clear I was quoting somebody. Sorry for missing out the source, honest mistake. Anyway I've changed it now.
Does it matter one whiff if the indigenous inhabitants were Turkish, or Jordanian or Egyptian? THEY had lived there for centuries, the Zionist European immigrants whose actual heritage and roots lay in their countries of origin (however wronged they had been by the government(s) of the day) not in the dispossession with intent of another land's inhabitants so they could create a unliateralist exclusionary state based on preference for the adherents of one religion.
Had Jews simply moved and resided in the land without an ideological intent to create a state modelled on colonialist exceptionalism, they undoubtedly would not have inflamed the already clearly present population. Its was knowledge of what Weizmann, Herzl and co were advocating in Europe beginning just prior to the turn of the century which inspired the unrest and concern that ultimately resulted in armed defiance after some 700-800,000 were brutally forced out or killed by the Irgun and Stern Gang.
How interesting that you would question me and not that well documented historic fact and the lies used to whitewash it, MoK, when you can claim that invading foreign lands is okay today when genocide is involved.
Ah the schizophrenic logic of the modern media spun mind.
http://desip.igc.org/ImageReview.html
And I must say, coming from you, its a case of pot-kettle-black to be discussing belittling.
It serves no purpose.
I support Israel and I accept that Israel is not perfect. I believe that both sides have committed wrongdoings. To simply say the ‘Israelis are clearly in the wrong’ and blame Israel entirely however is not at all helpful.
And like it or not in 1948 the great partition proposed one Jewish state and one Arab state. The Arabs refused and declared war. Arab leaders urged the Arabs to leave the area and Arabs were told they could return when Israel was defeated. Many Jews urged Arabs to stay with them and live in peace but most sadly left. The Arabs didn’t win and years later their still in refugee camps because the Arabs decision to fight. Of course the oil-rich Arab states could settle these refugees in a week...But instead they choose to use them as a political pawn against Israel.
Even after the Six Day War Israel offered to withdraw from the Golan Heights and Sinai in return for peace - the Arabs said "no peace with Israel, no negotiations with Israel, no recognition of Israel…"
Typical Zionist revisionist crap Dis. The solution lies in Israel renouncing its adherence to Zionism as its central institutionalised doctrine, and with it the exclusionary preference for the right of any Jew to move there regardless of country of origin. Let it become a truly pluralistic and open society like a true self-claimed "democracy" must be by definition so that the palestinians need not be walled out or forced to accept some Sharon dictated bantustan of a non-contiguous state and let Moslems and Jews live together side by side even if the Jews should become a minority (as they always were prior to massive calculated immigration as proven above) and then we'll see true peace in the region.
But that is what Zionists can never allow for it undermines the very apartheid principles upon which the ideology is based. Thus the governing precepts will continue to be dictated by historic whitewashers like yourself and Mr. Farah. Until perchance a more rational and socially just generation emerges to atone for the shame perpetrated by Zionists for more than half a century.
I think what he means is, that there are some who would suggest that Israel's wrongdoing is small, or isignificant compared to Palestine's. But the reality is Israel (however much they deny it) have are still do contribute to the conflict (i.e. settlements). Palestinian terrorists / freedom fighters (that's a tricky decision, isn't it?) also contribute to the furthering of the conflict, that goes without saying - you can't blow up people and expect it to be 'ok'.
That's one thing I never understood about Palestinian bombers. Why bomb people? Construction sites on Palestinian land - that's not so bad, in my opinion. Saw this thing once and it said there are two types of bombers - those trying to get attention by bombing buildings, etc. and those who just want to cause the most damage by bombing people.
But then again, I don't understand why even now Israel continues to make moves against the peace process. Why, after all this time, their soldiery still has a disproportionate amount of racist thugs who just like killing (that is assuming that they're not encouraged and order to do so - why order the murder of young children etc.)
I think both leaders should be replaced by people who aren't involved in the conflict. Like, take the countries into administration