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seesm the israeli troops cant get enough of the football
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050527/80/fjwu7.html
no matter how amusing this may be, its still bloody out of order imo
no matter how amusing this may be, its still bloody out of order imo
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Just another reason why you'd never want to go to Israel.
Fascinating............. but not really relevant to the topic. And, at the end of the day bullshit - unless you're saying that it predates the rest of the universe, then it has the same amount of history as everywhere else.
I'm sure if you'd been there, you'd have gone in, watched the telly and smashed the furniture as well.
From pointless 6-hour waits at empty checkpoints (and don't you dare pull out a book and read while you're in the queue, because the IDF will think you're taking the piss and subject you to a 10-hour interrogation) to urinating on the rooftop of Palestinian houses, to driving tanks over parked vehicles, to uprooting vines out of pure malice, to continually arrest young males for up to weeks at an end only to be released without charge and be re-arrested a few weeks later (this can go on for years and many Palestinians can't attend university, hold a job or lead anything resembling a normal and dignified life as a result), the catalogue of abuses and the misery endured by the Palestinians is practically unprecedented in modern history.
The above incidents are real and reported by the British press over the last few years. Imagine how many more happen that we do not hear about.
Those who insist on saying each side is "as bad as each other" should remember that is only one set of people that is oppressing another here, and that aside from the bombings and killings (which the Israeli have always lead by a comfortable 3/1 ratio anyway) the Palestinians are made to suffer on their daily lives to a degree almost unimaginable.
And if this is just the every day occurances it makes me wonder how the Palestinians go from day to day, truly this conflict must end for the sake of people's everyday lives. Doubt it will happen though.
Wasn't Nazi Germany a beautiful country though? At least for the Aryans. I don't realise how the natural beauty really compensates... I would rather live somewhere safe and un beautiful, than somewhere I'm in fear all the time that's picturesque. I think for the average person in Israel / Palestine they probably can't enjoy the view due to fear.
Beauty is probably in the eye of the beholder - personally I find Palestinian villages to be a lot more attractive than Israeli suburbia.......
And the settlements are plain ugly.
What matadore might find beautiful? Perhaps we should put him a concrete cell.
Don't worry, I am sure they don't want animal abusers (and what's worse) there too, with all the bullshit that goes on there.
So stay in England
Oh, and regarding your question. No the army does not promote such actions, as you can see the commander was suspended. Probably just have to realize that these are young me of maybe only 18. Not that it excuses them, but it does explain their eagerness.
Why is bullying and intimidating (to say the least) so wide spread then? Something in the water perhaps? I know soldiers of any army in the world can be rough a lot of the time, but not to the extent of the IDF.
The settlements are small sheds. Their locations are often beautiful though.
Which Palestinian villages are that?
Either way, in my opinion nothing in this world beats Ein Karem in Jerusalem.
I really think you're talking bullshit. And I keep asking myself how you of all people, when you have such a wicked history (portrayed and posted about on these boards) can have such a moral highground.
And I guess this is what Matadore found beautiful (for your information, the concrete part is pretty small)
http://www.imagenesdeisrael.com/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/imagenes_de_Tel-.magenes_de_Tel-Aviv_Yafo/azrieli%20tower.jpg
http://www.math.toronto.edu/~drorbn/Gallery/Jerusalem/MahaneYehuda_2048.jpg
http://207.67.138.53/root/editor/images/KING%20DAVID%20SWIMMING%20POOL%20AND%20HOTEL%20PHOTO.jpg
http://web.syr.edu/~jsepstei/photos/israel/P1070247.jpg
The pictures were too big to post.
Quick diversion:
IMO the most beautiful places I've seen are Phuket, Bradgate Park near where I live, Ronda, Spain and of course, just where I live. See new beauty in everything every day, it's wonderful to live in a place where you're able to do that. I fear that for many people who live in Israel or Palestine the fear of 'the other side' prevents them from doing so.
Making personal attacks may make you feel better, but it doesn't change my opinion. You haven't responded to my question, but merely insulted me. I put it to you, would you not be intimidated if you were in Israel, for example, and several armed Palestinians barged into your house to watch a football match. I know if it happened to me although there was no real physical damage (I don't know how credible the claims of damage are) I would be emotionally shaken etc.
Why are there so many reported claims of 'bad behaviour' from the IDF though? I mean, I've never had anyone in my entire life, or even heard of it in my locality, of soldiers bursting into someone's home. Or anyone for that matter. I just don't get it, the conflict between Israel and Palestine seems to start from the soldiers but at the end of the day people aren't bad. So why do they behave like this to each other?
Of course, if it makes you feel better, continue to insult me and dredge old things up, though I daresay it will contribute nothing to the argument.
Name a country which has had such a colourful history as that small strip of land in the middle east.
You cant.
Israel has been central to humanitys history for thousands of years.
As for beauty, I was thinking more along the lines of :
Or
Or perhaps:
Hahaha, very funny. I think you really need to break out of the Anti-Israel anti- Semitic bubble created by such posters as Freethepeeps, visiting Israel, or learning the history of the Jewish people would help. As would a proper appreciation of the strategic situation Israel is faced with every single day.
And as said there is no need to ask me if I'd be scared if Palestinians walked into my house, as I'd be terrified. If it wasn't clear I in my first post took distance to the soldiers behaviour.
And again, no, I don't believe the IDF to be the vilest army on earth or whatever you claim them to be. They do have a bad history on incidences, and I guess that people actually take time out to report about these is because that it doesn't corelate to the kind of country they're from.
I mean, no one batters and eyelid when reading about the attrocities commited by the Saudi forces, as people know that it's due to the kind of regime they're from.
That said, a lot of the IDF incidents reported about, are blown out of proportion. I have this from first hand information
Hmm, I'm sure you do - but whatever you say, bullying and intimidation IS widespread. Where I would take issue with is the idea that other armies don't bully and intimidate as much - Abu Ghraib and many other facets of the Iraq occupation tell us otherwise.......... but the IDF do like to give all this stuff about "purity of arms" and "the most moral army in the world", which isn't helping their case as acts like the one above come to be exposed to a waking-up audience.
"So..... there's a Sunday morning train from Haifa to Tel Aviv, the cars are packed with soldiers returning from a Sabbath with their families. Beautiful kids - tall, healthy, clear eyed, well spoken - they are the triumph of the nation ...... except that they're having a lively technical discussion about shooting a ricochet .... in case you should happen to shoot, you know, a lady, a little kid, or someone old ... and they're simply not labelable, believably, as a terrorist - and if there's an investigation ... but you can show that your bullet hit the cement behind the also-dead ("No, next to them is better - it won't bounce if it's straight behind them") .... well, then, no problem - it was just an unlucky ricochet. The discussion ended with general agreement: It doesn't matter, these days - there's not going to be any investigation."
Richard Ben Kramer - HOW ISRAEL LOST - freePress - pg 53
What a load of toss - your statement was that Israel has more history than anywhere else - and that is palpable bullshit. Furthermore, what you're referring to is not the history of the region but the narrative of a small minority of the people in the region.
As for Israel being central to humanity's history for thousands of years - are you stark raving mad?
What, 10 day package holiday was it matadore?
Now back up your claims of my anti-semitism or go fuck yourself.
Twat.
:hyper:
Even if that should be the case, then why are his words less credible than someone who hasn't been there at all?
or
*From IDF brutality to 'my favourite historical and beauy spot in the world' in 20 odd posts. Is this a record?*
Quite possibly
Where are you taking this? And who hasn't been there?
It is matadore's assertion that people need to go and find out for themselves one side of the story - cos thats all he sees.
I suggest that people go there with an open mind and see the situation from the perspective of Israelis and Palestinians - both in the West Bank (Gaza is a closed prison) and '48 Israel.
But, it is something that people are likely to know a fair bit about - as its been pushed hard in the media for a long time.
You could spend 10 days doing a package tour and learn absolutely zilch about what is really going on.
There are a lot of people here who have never been in the country, whom you never question just because they happen to agree with you.
Btw - I have done both the 10 days trip, and the "Sabra" experience. They are very different, but as a whole the tourist trip does give a sense of what goes on. And the tourist can gain perspective at a higher level than just watching TV reports at home.
Sorry, I didn't realise I was supposed to question viewpoints that accord with my own..... I'm sure that isn't in the FAQs
Can you give me an example of your interrogations of people whose viewpoints you agree with?
Just so I can see how it works.......
I didn't say you should. You approach though, just shows that the length of a stay is more or less irelevant to the credibility of ones opinion.
Nazi german was also similarly careful about chain of command when it came to the final solution. No I'm not comparing the IDF or israel to the third reich, but saying that the army doesn't promote behaviour means exactly nothing when it doesn't do anything to stop it. The british army doesn't promote such behaviour, so how is it that with the IDF such things happen all the time, and with the UK's armed forces they happen next to never?
I didnt mean it as a quantity, moron, its a figure of speech. Try studying the history of the Holy Land extensively, and you will realise what a wealth of knowledge there is there.
You would deny Christianity, Judaims and Islams influence on human history? Are you mad?
You are relentless in your critiscism of Israel, but it goes deeper than that. You always , without exception jump down anyones throat who tries to defend Israel and Jews in general. Never in my time have I seen such blatant and recognisable anti-semitism from anyone. Not that it suprises me. The European left has always been anti semitic.
Mark Steyn sums up the Euro-lefts position (i.e your position) very well:
The Continentals are something else. Some just don't like Jews and resent having been unable to express that opinion honestly these last 50 years. But with the others the psychology's a little more complicated. Almost every European country was tainted by the Holocaust and Nazi occupation, but for the sake of the post-war settlement the world agreed to pretend only Germany was to blame. Not so. In France and Holland, the locals eagerly herded Jews onto those eastbound trains.
In Belgium, industrial production went up under the Nazis. After half-a-century, the Continentals are sick of this guilt trip. They need to see Israel as the aggressor for their own psychological health. That's why that wacky Dutch broad who's married to the big Eurobanker keeps comparing Sharon to Hitler and Likud to the Nazis.
It's a way of evening the score - "Sure, we had Hitler, you have Sharon; we have Auschwitz, you have Jenin." It's their way of belatedly taking a moral shower, a way of saying, "See, the score's one-one now. You're as bad as us. Let's just call it a draw and move on."
Perhaps because that Britain is not in a constant fight?
And also I do remember cases with British troops that were discussed on these boards
I am not excusing every action of the IDF - merely pointing out that no they are not the vilest army on earth.