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Awwww
I was planning on waiting till she was 16 but we both just felt ready for it, i didnt expect it to happen and i think we were both shocked at the fact we wanted to do it.
Oh and id like to go back to a previous point where i mentioned it would be ok if i was living in Holland. Basically what i ment was that if its morally and legaly ok to do it in Holland should the fact that we have an older age limit really make it that wrong?
In Scotland its not unusual for 12 year olds to be having sex, im in no way saying that is right but surley a 15 year old who is in a loving relationship isnt exactly being taken advantage of. There are certain times when the legality of things doesnt seem important, such as getting drunk at 17 is it really that big a deal so long as your with people you can trust?
Personally i feel that the law isnt always right, things like sex and the feelings cant always be controlled by what a goverment thinks is right. After all this is the same goverment that attacked Iraq :razz:
Well that's just silly as this government did not introduce the age limit
Actually, you'll find it is reading it. It's called taking the pertinent bits of a post, and commenting on them.
Go and find me where I have said it isn't there.
I believe I've already commented at least twice on the subject of generalisations, go and read what I've said again.
To refresh your memory:
"(I) didn't say that all 15yo girls were as mature as all 18yo boys..."
Carefully and completely ignoring the actual point I raised, I note.
*yawn*
Supporting evidence? I can't see any.
You've denounced an acknowledged generalisation with a series of "well my mate isn't like that..." irrelevancies. Nowhere have I said that all people are the same, in fact I said the exact opposite:
"Many 15yos are more mature than 18yos, and vice versa, it all depends on the person."
As for my source about my generalisation about maturity, I refer you to the Usborne book on "Growing Up", as that is my source for my assertion.
What's that got to do with anything? Do Dutch teens take some multi-vitamins that give them more maturity, or something, or does the varying ages of majority not illustrate the sheer abritraryness of the ages of consent?
The law is there, and if you break it you break it. But step out from behind the law for a second, and realise that- whilst the law is there- it is purely an abritrary limit. Five years ago 17-year-old boys couldn't have homosexual sex, and now they can- have gays suddenly matured by two years since the law was changed?
Edited due to typing mistakes.
But as a parent I agree with what they are saying.
Why does an adult need to have a realtionship with a kid ? not being funny but thats what someone is when they are 14/15 ish and the other person is 18+
What do friends say when you say you are dating someone much younger ? Do they not take the piss ?
Cos we are talking the law here not there, so some plonker brings that into.
I personally don't think 18-year-olds are adult, much as they think they are, and I don't think 15-year-olds are as childlike as you think they are.
Do you think 16-year-old gay boys are now more mature than they were five years ago, simply because the law has given them more rights?
I personally don't think 18-year-olds are adult, much as they think they are, and I don't think 15-year-olds are as childlike as you think they are.[/QUOTE
yay!
you said that it implies no such thing
I retorted with the fact ballerina stated that an 18 year old guy is not mature and a 15 year old is on same level of maturity
and then you argue I have made no argument against your argument
you said
The law is there to protect very young people from older "sexual predators". An 18yo boy with a 15yo girl doesn't exactly fit that category.
I then replied with
Of course the law is also there for 18 and 15 year olds. Are you trying to tell me there are not impressionable 15 year olds who can be pressured into sex by an 18 year old? Again a generalisation is made that it is purely about sexual predators
and now you say
Go and find me where I have said it isn't there.
now i say
Then you will read where I have tried to point out REALLY obviously the supporting evidence for what I said which you originally said didn't exist.
to which you reply
Supporting evidence? I can't see any.
Now I ask would you like it in capitals or something because really it isn't a difficult to understand point im making.
If you do not agree with the law and are tried for the crime of sex with a minor then you have the right to trial by Jury. Any members of the Jury who do not agree with the law are obliged to vote not guilty. I don't understand why people are complaining about the law when if you are all so convinced it unfair then you would get a not guilty verdict from the Jury.
That part of the post was just a joke, hence the silly smiley at the end...
Some are some are not, all 15 yr olds are not immature blah blah.
But lets not forget at 14/15 yrs old we have boyfriends (well not you
Many people will admit that they should have waited to have sex till they were older, they admit at 15 they were not ready for it but its only when they look back 5 years down the track they see that they should have waited.
At 14/15 yrs of age 'everyones' at it, at least thats what their freinds are telling them but I think thats all bullshit as well. So I think that many are pressured into having sex purely for that reason. I mean for a 14/15 yr old it looks great going to school saying :
Wheyyyyyyy I had me leg over with an 18 yr old last night, yeah that would look great for the child but looking at it the other way if the 18 yr old went to college/work and said:
wheyyyyy I had me leg over with a 14 yr old you would get a totally different response and I think in many cases in real life 18 yr olds wouldnt admit they had sex with someone that age.
So lets get this clear, im not saying 14/15 yr olds should not have sex cos theres no point saying that cos they will do it if they wanna do it. But if they do want to have sex then I would be happier if it was with someone their own age................not an 18 yr old who should be out clubbing with their mates.
good point.... :chin:
She said some/most. Which isn't untrue, it's an proven fact.
You will also note, as I've already highlighted it for you three times, that I said "it depends on the person".
You haven'. Semantics isn't an argument.
I've already covered the subject of generalisations twice. I've posted it in bold and underlining, is that obvious enough for you?
No I didn't.
Either you are deliberately taking my comment out of context because you have no better argument, or you are too stupid to understand the context. Which is it?
bomberman: Of course the law is also there for 18 and 15 year olds.
Kermit: Go and find me where I have said it isn't there.
Go and find me where I have denied the existence of the law.
It doesn't. Your evidence is allegorical at best.
Your point is that some 15-year-olds are mature, and some aren't, and vice versa with 18-year-olds. Well done, have a cookie, because that's exactly what both me and Ballerina have been saying for two sodding pages- obviously you didn't notice because you were too busy tearing strips off her for no reason.
Your point is that because some 15-year-olds aren't mature, that any person under the age of consent is suddenly too immature to have sex. It isn't the case, which is the point both Ballerina and I have been driving at. It all depends on the person, which makes all the witterings about "the law is the law" largely irrelevant.
And many people, including my wife, have never regretted it.
And many people aged 17, 18, 19 have regretted it.
What's your point? That people make sexual mistakes?
For many 15-year-old girls an 18-year-old boy IS their mental age. Girls tend to mature faster than boys until about the age of 16/17, before boys catch up. Many girls don't want to have sex with their peers because their physical peers are not their mental peers.
Although, just in case bomberman doesn't notice it this time either, it depends on the person.
And BeckyBoo, your arguments about "the law being the law" are rather bizarre. As saj rightly points out, a 65-year-old man can have sex with a 16-year-old girl legally: does that make it OK? After all its legal, and the law is the only barometer of morals.
Becky hasn't argued that because something is legal it is morally correct. She has argued that if it is illegal then you shouldn't be doing it. They are in no way the same argument.
I regret it, but only because of who it was with, not because I felt afterwards that I wasn't ready.
Too right
Im not 100% sure, but isnt the law in the Netherlands, that 12 is the age of consent, but only with other people of their own age group. Ie 40 year with a 12 year old would be illegal, but a 13 year old and a 16 year old for instance would be OK.
can someone correct me if im wrong.
I think it sounds like a better system tbh.
Until 30 years ago homsexual sex was an imprisonable offence. Why? "It just is".
The law should always be queried and questioned.
I'm not arguing that a 65-year-old should be prohibited from the consesual sexual intercourse. try reading what I have written again, revision aids understanding.
I'm merely pointing out that the illegality, or otherwise, of an act is not the only barometer of moral decency. "It's the law, stoopid" is not a good enough argument with regards to moral decency.
Who's complaining about an age limit? I believe one needs to exist. Again, actually try reading what I've written, I don't use that long words.
I was pointing out that legal age limits are arbitrary, and simply saying that "a 15-year-old shouldn't have sex because of the law" is a ridiculous argument, because of the hypothetical 65-year-old and because of the lower ages of consent in much of continental Europe.
It is largely the same argument though, except reversed. If you argue that someone shouldn't do something because of a random and abritrary law, then the argument logically follows that someone can do something if that law is not there. Legally that argument is perfectly true: if you don't want to commit an offence, don't shag an under-age girl. But the law is only one aspect of morality.
I again refer you to the laws regarding homosexual sex. Should gay men have not had sex with each other simply because there was a law to say they aren't allowed to? Was that morally acceptable?
Something is illegal => You Should not do it
That is an implies statement
However in now way does that affect the logical statement
Something is legal => You Should Do It
I believe your understanding of discrete mathematics and logical prequestions is not up to scratch here.
Not really. What about if it was illegal to breathe? Would you not breathe because you weren't allowed to?
Just because something's illegal doesn't make it the be all and end all. The only reason my mum was so unhappy with me having sex at 15 was that she hated the guy it was with, and she had a bit of an issue with the age (which she wouldn't have had that much of an issue with had he been a nice person). Had it been with a decent person, and maybe with someone slightly younger, I don't think she'd have minded as long as I was safe.
The next time someone tells me (either directly or indirectly) I shouldn't have had sex at 15, I shall give them a piece of my mind. Because even after alllllllll the shit it caused, I still think I was mentally mature enough to have done it. I think the fact that I managed to have rational conversations with my father about it, and try and make sure the relationship wasn't just about sex (which it ended up being, not because of me, but because he was a persuasive fucker and I was in love so gave in too easily) half proves that.
Dunno why I'm bothering though.
Do you think thats why so many say they have done whatever, just to 'look' cool and be grown up.
lilmize you dont see having sex at an early age a problem even though you had a pregnancy scare aged 12............shit :rolleyes:
yeah thats the impression i get from listening to talk from school - most of the time they're bragging about what/who theyve done and so on.....i know alot of it could just be talk but i know loads of them rushed into it cause they felt pressured to fit in.