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sex with minors

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    like me and my gf however we arent having sex until shes 16 here, mainly cause of social services and we dont want to lie - needless to say the birthday in 5 months :thumb:

    i dont actually miss it that much, i realised i just love my gfs company and affection and doing the same back even if its just hugging and kissing cause i love her to bits :blush:

    Awwww :)

    I was planning on waiting till she was 16 but we both just felt ready for it, i didnt expect it to happen and i think we were both shocked at the fact we wanted to do it.

    Oh and id like to go back to a previous point where i mentioned it would be ok if i was living in Holland. Basically what i ment was that if its morally and legaly ok to do it in Holland should the fact that we have an older age limit really make it that wrong?

    In Scotland its not unusual for 12 year olds to be having sex, im in no way saying that is right but surley a 15 year old who is in a loving relationship isnt exactly being taken advantage of. There are certain times when the legality of things doesnt seem important, such as getting drunk at 17 is it really that big a deal so long as your with people you can trust?

    Personally i feel that the law isnt always right, things like sex and the feelings cant always be controlled by what a goverment thinks is right. After all this is the same goverment that attacked Iraq :razz:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Irnbru wrote:
    Awwww :)
    After all this is the same goverment that attacked Iraq :razz:

    Well that's just silly as this government did not introduce the age limit
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i thought that it rather was dubious aswell!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    quoting the bottom part of my response suggesting it was the whole response isn't really reading is it kermit?

    Actually, you'll find it is reading it. It's called taking the pertinent bits of a post, and commenting on them.
    Of course the law is also there for 18 and 15 year olds.

    Go and find me where I have said it isn't there.
    Are you trying to tell me there are not impressionable 15 year olds who can be pressured into sex by an 18 year old? Again a generalisation is made that it is purely about sexual predators.

    I believe I've already commented at least twice on the subject of generalisations, go and read what I've said again.

    To refresh your memory:

    "(I) didn't say that all 15yo girls were as mature as all 18yo boys..."
    If a girl of 15 and 364 days wants sex she has to wait a few days. She's waited nearly 16 years a few days won't hurt will it?

    Carefully and completely ignoring the actual point I raised, I note.
    every post of yours [with] exactly the same tone in.

    *yawn*
    Then you will read where I have tried to point out REALLY obviously the supporting evidence for what I said which you originally said didn't exist.

    Supporting evidence? I can't see any.

    You've denounced an acknowledged generalisation with a series of "well my mate isn't like that..." irrelevancies. Nowhere have I said that all people are the same, in fact I said the exact opposite:

    "Many 15yos are more mature than 18yos, and vice versa, it all depends on the person."

    As for my source about my generalisation about maturity, I refer you to the Usborne book on "Growing Up", as that is my source for my assertion.
    BeckyBoo wrote:
    But you aint in Holland.

    What's that got to do with anything? Do Dutch teens take some multi-vitamins that give them more maturity, or something, or does the varying ages of majority not illustrate the sheer abritraryness of the ages of consent?

    The law is there, and if you break it you break it. But step out from behind the law for a second, and realise that- whilst the law is there- it is purely an abritrary limit. Five years ago 17-year-old boys couldn't have homosexual sex, and now they can- have gays suddenly matured by two years since the law was changed?

    Edited due to typing mistakes.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Irnbru wrote:

    Personally i feel that the law isnt always right, things like sex and the feelings cant always be controlled by what a goverment thinks is right.


    But as a parent I agree with what they are saying.


    Why does an adult need to have a realtionship with a kid ? not being funny but thats what someone is when they are 14/15 ish and the other person is 18+

    What do friends say when you say you are dating someone much younger ? Do they not take the piss ?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    What's that got to do with anything?

    Cos we are talking the law here not there, so some plonker brings that into.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BeckyBoo wrote:
    Cos we are talking the law here not there, so some plonker brings that into.
    It's a fair point to mention the law in other countries, I feel. It's a point I've made several times before: are the Dutch and Spanish naturally more mature, or is it that the respective governments just pluck a day out of their bottoms?

    I personally don't think 18-year-olds are adult, much as they think they are, and I don't think 15-year-olds are as childlike as you think they are.

    Do you think 16-year-old gay boys are now more mature than they were five years ago, simply because the law has given them more rights?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    [QUOTE=Kermit
    I personally don't think 18-year-olds are adult, much as they think they are, and I don't think 15-year-olds are as childlike as you think they are.[/QUOTE
    yay!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    right final time of attempting to point out and frankly im getting bored and wish you would take time to read it yourself without me physically having to highlight it for you.

    you said that it implies no such thing

    I retorted with the fact ballerina stated that an 18 year old guy is not mature and a 15 year old is on same level of maturity

    and then you argue I have made no argument against your argument

    you said

    The law is there to protect very young people from older "sexual predators". An 18yo boy with a 15yo girl doesn't exactly fit that category.

    I then replied with

    Of course the law is also there for 18 and 15 year olds. Are you trying to tell me there are not impressionable 15 year olds who can be pressured into sex by an 18 year old? Again a generalisation is made that it is purely about sexual predators

    and now you say

    Go and find me where I have said it isn't there.

    now i say

    Then you will read where I have tried to point out REALLY obviously the supporting evidence for what I said which you originally said didn't exist.

    to which you reply

    Supporting evidence? I can't see any.

    Now I ask would you like it in capitals or something because really it isn't a difficult to understand point im making.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    More importantly for the people who are complaining about the boundary and saying it is ok for an 18 year old to sleep with a 15 year old, I would like to know at what age precisesly does it stop being OK? Is it OK for someone aged 18 and 1 day? The argument about the place of a limit is ridiculous at best

    If you do not agree with the law and are tried for the crime of sex with a minor then you have the right to trial by Jury. Any members of the Jury who do not agree with the law are obliged to vote not guilty. I don't understand why people are complaining about the law when if you are all so convinced it unfair then you would get a not guilty verdict from the Jury.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well that's just silly as this government did not introduce the age limit

    That part of the post was just a joke, hence the silly smiley at the end...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    I personally don't think 18-year-olds are adult, much as they think they are, and I don't think 15-year-olds are as childlike as you think they are.

    Some are some are not, all 15 yr olds are not immature blah blah.

    But lets not forget at 14/15 yrs old we have boyfriends (well not you ;) ) , its our first love and we are gonna be together forever..........yeah get the picture, lets not fool ourselves for the majoity it aint gonna be like that.

    Many people will admit that they should have waited to have sex till they were older, they admit at 15 they were not ready for it but its only when they look back 5 years down the track they see that they should have waited.
    At 14/15 yrs of age 'everyones' at it, at least thats what their freinds are telling them but I think thats all bullshit as well. So I think that many are pressured into having sex purely for that reason. I mean for a 14/15 yr old it looks great going to school saying :
    Wheyyyyyyy I had me leg over with an 18 yr old last night, yeah that would look great for the child but looking at it the other way if the 18 yr old went to college/work and said:
    wheyyyyy I had me leg over with a 14 yr old you would get a totally different response and I think in many cases in real life 18 yr olds wouldnt admit they had sex with someone that age.

    So lets get this clear, im not saying 14/15 yr olds should not have sex cos theres no point saying that cos they will do it if they wanna do it. But if they do want to have sex then I would be happier if it was with someone their own age................not an 18 yr old who should be out clubbing with their mates.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Could not agree more. I think it's important for those who use illegality as the basis for their opinions on this topic, to remember that it is legal for a 50 year old man to have sex with a 16 year old girl. Now is that more or less disturbing than an 18 year old sleeping with a 15 year old?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    saj029763 wrote:
    Could not agree more. I think it's important for those who use illegality as the basis for their opinions on this topic, to remember that it is legal for a 50 year old man to have sex with a 16 year old girl. Now is that more or less disturbing than an 18 year old sleeping with a 15 year old?

    good point.... :chin:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I retorted with the fact ballerina stated that an 18 year old guy is not mature and a 15 year old is on same level of maturity

    She said some/most. Which isn't untrue, it's an proven fact.

    You will also note, as I've already highlighted it for you three times, that I said "it depends on the person".
    and then you argue I have made no argument against your argument

    You haven'. Semantics isn't an argument.
    The law is there to protect very young people from older "sexual predators". An 18yo boy with a 15yo girl doesn't exactly fit that category.

    I then replied with

    Of course the law is also there for 18 and 15 year olds. Are you trying to tell me there are not impressionable 15 year olds who can be pressured into sex by an 18 year old? Again a generalisation is made that it is purely about sexual predators

    I've already covered the subject of generalisations twice. I've posted it in bold and underlining, is that obvious enough for you?
    and now you say

    Go and find me where I have said it isn't there.

    No I didn't.

    Either you are deliberately taking my comment out of context because you have no better argument, or you are too stupid to understand the context. Which is it?

    bomberman: Of course the law is also there for 18 and 15 year olds.

    Kermit: Go and find me where I have said it isn't there.


    Go and find me where I have denied the existence of the law.
    Then you will read where I have tried to point out REALLY obviously the supporting evidence for what I said which you originally said didn't exist.

    It doesn't. Your evidence is allegorical at best.
    Now I ask would you like it in capitals or something because really it isn't a difficult to understand point im making.

    Your point is that some 15-year-olds are mature, and some aren't, and vice versa with 18-year-olds. Well done, have a cookie, because that's exactly what both me and Ballerina have been saying for two sodding pages- obviously you didn't notice because you were too busy tearing strips off her for no reason.

    Your point is that because some 15-year-olds aren't mature, that any person under the age of consent is suddenly too immature to have sex. It isn't the case, which is the point both Ballerina and I have been driving at. It all depends on the person, which makes all the witterings about "the law is the law" largely irrelevant.
    BeckyBoo wrote:
    Many people will admit that they should have waited to have sex till they were older, they admit at 15 they were not ready for it but its only when they look back 5 years down the track they see that they should have waited.

    And many people, including my wife, have never regretted it.

    And many people aged 17, 18, 19 have regretted it.

    What's your point? That people make sexual mistakes?
    But if they do want to have sex then I would be happier if it was with someone their own age................not an 18 yr old who should be out clubbing with their mates.

    For many 15-year-old girls an 18-year-old boy IS their mental age. Girls tend to mature faster than boys until about the age of 16/17, before boys catch up. Many girls don't want to have sex with their peers because their physical peers are not their mental peers.

    Although, just in case bomberman doesn't notice it this time either, it depends on the person.

    And BeckyBoo, your arguments about "the law being the law" are rather bizarre. As saj rightly points out, a 65-year-old man can have sex with a 16-year-old girl legally: does that make it OK? After all its legal, and the law is the only barometer of morals.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The argument is that it is illegal. It just is. Why cry and bitch about it? If you are suggesting somebody of 1 day off being 16 should be able to have sex with an 18 year old then why are you arguing that somebody of 65 can't have sex with a 16 year old. Unless you are prepared to set new age limits yourself and give a good reason why then complaining about the unfairness of having an age limit is a pointless and idiotic argument.

    Becky hasn't argued that because something is legal it is morally correct. She has argued that if it is illegal then you shouldn't be doing it. They are in no way the same argument.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    And many people, including my wife, have never regretted it.

    I regret it, but only because of who it was with, not because I felt afterwards that I wasn't ready.
    Kermit wrote:
    Many girls don't want to have sex with their peers because their physical peers are not their mental peers.

    Too right :|.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    . Unless you are prepared to set new age limits yourself and give a good reason why then complaining about the unfairness of having an age limit is a pointless and idiotic argument.

    .
    Good idea.
    Im not 100% sure, but isnt the law in the Netherlands, that 12 is the age of consent, but only with other people of their own age group. Ie 40 year with a 12 year old would be illegal, but a 13 year old and a 16 year old for instance would be OK.
    can someone correct me if im wrong.
    I think it sounds like a better system tbh.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well teenagers become sexually 'awake' long before the law says they're allowed to actually do it - i think it's also because its ''forbidden and cool'' and makes you seem more 'grown up' that makes it so appealing. And alot of it is out of curiosity too.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The argument is that it is illegal. It just is.

    Until 30 years ago homsexual sex was an imprisonable offence. Why? "It just is".

    The law should always be queried and questioned.
    If you are suggesting somebody of 1 day off being 16 should be able to have sex with an 18 year old then why are you arguing that somebody of 65 can't have sex with a 16 year old.

    I'm not arguing that a 65-year-old should be prohibited from the consesual sexual intercourse. try reading what I have written again, revision aids understanding.

    I'm merely pointing out that the illegality, or otherwise, of an act is not the only barometer of moral decency. "It's the law, stoopid" is not a good enough argument with regards to moral decency.
    Unless you are prepared to set new age limits yourself and give a good reason why then complaining about the unfairness of having an age limit is a pointless and idiotic argument.

    Who's complaining about an age limit? I believe one needs to exist. Again, actually try reading what I've written, I don't use that long words.

    I was pointing out that legal age limits are arbitrary, and simply saying that "a 15-year-old shouldn't have sex because of the law" is a ridiculous argument, because of the hypothetical 65-year-old and because of the lower ages of consent in much of continental Europe.
    Becky hasn't argued that because something is legal it is morally correct. She has argued that if it is illegal then you shouldn't be doing it. They are in no way the same argument.

    It is largely the same argument though, except reversed. If you argue that someone shouldn't do something because of a random and abritrary law, then the argument logically follows that someone can do something if that law is not there. Legally that argument is perfectly true: if you don't want to commit an offence, don't shag an under-age girl. But the law is only one aspect of morality.

    I again refer you to the laws regarding homosexual sex. Should gay men have not had sex with each other simply because there was a law to say they aren't allowed to? Was that morally acceptable?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course it doesn't logically follow that is just idiotic!

    Something is illegal => You Should not do it

    That is an implies statement

    However in now way does that affect the logical statement

    Something is legal => You Should Do It

    I believe your understanding of discrete mathematics and logical prequestions is not up to scratch here.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Something is illegal => You Should not do it

    Not really. What about if it was illegal to breathe? Would you not breathe because you weren't allowed to?

    Just because something's illegal doesn't make it the be all and end all. The only reason my mum was so unhappy with me having sex at 15 was that she hated the guy it was with, and she had a bit of an issue with the age (which she wouldn't have had that much of an issue with had he been a nice person). Had it been with a decent person, and maybe with someone slightly younger, I don't think she'd have minded as long as I was safe.

    The next time someone tells me (either directly or indirectly) I shouldn't have had sex at 15, I shall give them a piece of my mind. Because even after alllllllll the shit it caused, I still think I was mentally mature enough to have done it. I think the fact that I managed to have rational conversations with my father about it, and try and make sure the relationship wasn't just about sex (which it ended up being, not because of me, but because he was a persuasive fucker and I was in love so gave in too easily) half proves that.

    Dunno why I'm bothering though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i actually disagree with most of you :impissed: , being 14 myself :blush: , i wouldnt class myself as immature as some 18yr olds can be :rolleyes: ! ive gone out with alot of older lads.. as in 18, 19yr olds, and i dont see a problem with sleeping with them, but i know if it was my 14yr old daughter having sex.. id kill her! :yes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ...i should add.. i lost my virginity at 12, and my mum knew days after, as i had a pregnancy scare :( , but tbh, i dont see a problem in it, as long as your both sure you want to. :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    1 of my friends 'tried' to lose it today behind a building..... :eek:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ballerina wrote:
    i think it's also because its ''forbidden and cool'' and makes you seem more 'grown up' that makes it so appealing. And alot of it is out of curiosity too.


    Do you think thats why so many say they have done whatever, just to 'look' cool and be grown up.


    lilmize you dont see having sex at an early age a problem even though you had a pregnancy scare aged 12............shit :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i dont see it a big problem, as i felt ready... the pregnancy scare was just something which i would of have to delt with sooner or later in life.. are you all of a sudden going to stop going near roads incase you get hit?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and what i really wanted to say was... who are you to judge me.. when you hvent gone through the same as i have?? why make it personal?!?!?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BeckyBoo wrote:
    Do you think thats why so many say they have done whatever, just to 'look' cool and be grown up.


    lilmize you dont see having sex at an early age a problem even though you had a pregnancy scare aged 12............shit :rolleyes:

    yeah thats the impression i get from listening to talk from school - most of the time they're bragging about what/who theyve done and so on.....i know alot of it could just be talk but i know loads of them rushed into it cause they felt pressured to fit in.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i would actually say i was presured into it.. well.. you always think you know best.. i dnt regret it.. but i would of waited until i knew for certain it was what i wanted!
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