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Why I'm not voting rant

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    - Full employment is a nonsense, such a thing doesn't exist. Notice how the numbers on Incapacity Benefit and the number of economically inactive persons (i.e. those not in jobs and not looking for jobs) has rocketed over the years? 1 in 4 persons in some areas (the Welsh Valleys being one) is now on Incapacity Benefit. Notice the way students are told to carry on with education merely to keep them off unemployment figures?

    - Housing is indeed an area where things are going well, as is inflation and low interest rates. However, many of these can be attributed to Gordon Brown's (admittedly very sensible) decision to give independence to the Bank of England. Gordon Brown's biggest achievement has been to increase the payroll of the public sector by around 850,000, something which we shall regret hugely when the pensions bills come rolling in. So, to say that Labour is responsible for our economic prosperity is ludicrous.

    - Business booming? What planet are you on? I don't know which ones you're talking about. Businesses complain about the increase in rules, regulations and red tape imposed by Labour and by the EU (with the approval of Labour) and many complain that the minimum wage is an unfair burden on small businesses.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lets have the thatcher days back shall we?......erm...no!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    DEANO MAC wrote:
    lets have the thatcher days back shall we?......erm...no!
    Don't try and scare me with that Thatcherite bullshit. The fact is Margaret Thatcher's policies belong to the past. Don't try to scare me into voting for a party that took us into an illegal war on the basis of lies. I wonder what you have to say about that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    -
    - Business booming? What planet are you on? I don't know which ones you're talking about. Businesses complain about the increase in rules, regulations and red tape imposed by Labour and by the EU (with the approval of Labour) and many complain that the minimum wage is an unfair burden on small businesses.
    i remember interest rates making it near impossible for business to invest.
    for 18 years of tory fuck ups.
    i remember red tape being a tory problem as well.
    i remember the tories cutting police numbers in the middle of the biggest crime wave in history.
    i remember the tories encourasging the unemployed onto incapacity to hide the true unemployment figures ...something labour are now trying to sort out.
    i remember when people were moaning about lack of further education cos of tory cuts.
    i remember before the minmum wage jobs being advertised for £2.20 an hour.
    i remember the tory poll tax.
    i remember hospitals and schools that the rain was pouring in.
    i remember a shortage of vital school equipment including books.

    as for europe ...i can't wait for the day we embrace it fully.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, the Tories fucked up the economy, I've worked that out years ago when I first became interested in politics. The economy is doing well at the moment, but I don't believe Labour can take much of the credit for this. And personally, I'm in favour of the Minimum Wage, but think it should be increased slower than it is being done, give business more time to deal with costs and the like.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Don't try and scare me with that Thatcherite bullshit. The fact is Margaret Thatcher's policies belong to the past. Don't try to scare me into voting for a party that took us into an illegal war on the basis of lies. I wonder what you have to say about that.
    i think it has been shown that the tories have no desire to part with thatcheism.

    as for the war ...thats why i wont be putting my name to anyone ...the tories were up to their stupid necks in it as well ...and would have done the same thing.
    the tories want us tied to america rather than europe.
    tied as in a dog cos you have to be realy in dream world to think we can ever be an equal partner to america.
    we can be an equal in europe.
    in fact ...we can be leaders.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    give business more time to deal with costs and the like.
    tell that to the fat cats.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Don't try and scare me with that Thatcherite bullshit. The fact is Margaret Thatcher's policies belong to the past. Don't try to scare me into voting for a party that took us into an illegal war on the basis of lies. I wonder what you have to say about that.
    do you really know what you want?.....the answer is no! just moan about what a government does,and never suggest alternatives!..i remember a thatcher government,and believe me,you are alot better off now!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    oh yeah ...the tory years ...house repossesion at record levels ...proffesional people becoming homeless was not a pretty site ...loosing wife and kids and scratching in the gutter ...or moving into hmp.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    You've still missed my point about the German system still having constituencies in a PR setting.
    Yeah, sounds fine but you still end up with some MPs who do not have a constituency and therefore are not accountable to the voters.
    Also, in reality candidates are drawn centrally anyway. As Woodward proves, and as the latest Tory to attack Howard proves too. The local parties do what the central party tells them to, with a very few exceptions.
    But if the electorate doesn't like what the party offers, they can vote another way. This isn't the case with PR.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    It's entirely the point.
    It isn't. You are merely hypothesising. If the public wants Blair out because of the war, they can vote him out at the ballot box. They couldn't do that by marching. It is of no relevance that the other parties would have done the same, because this would be about removing a leader who actually went against the wishes of the majority of his electorate. It's not about not voting for someone who may or may not have done the same.
    That had nothing to do with the ballot box.
    I'm saying that if they re-introduced the tax escalator, they may well find that they lose votes at the ballot box.

    You seem not to understand that I am talking about removing a government that has done something that the people do not like, rather than not voting that government in in the first place.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Your faith in parliamentary democracy is touchingly naive.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    the minimum wage is an unfair burden on small businesses.

    If a business cannot afford to pay its staff £5.05/hour then it shouldn't be in business.
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    DomDom Deactivated Posts: 344 The Mix Regular
    Kentish wrote:
    theSite.org shouldn't promote political apathy, nor should it publicise any article encouraging people not to vote.

    Hey ho.

    We're not just doing that. It's going to be part of a group of articles around voting this May. However, we do feel that not voting is a valid choice - it doesn't neccessarily imply apathy.

    Dom
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dom wrote:
    We're not just doing that. It's going to be part of a group of articles around voting this May. However, we do feel that not voting is a valid choice - it doesn't neccessarily imply apathy.

    Dom
    Thank you, Dom.

    Not voting is a valid political decision. If large numbers of people feel disenfranchied then it is important to find out why, and a "rant" about it is a good way of highlighting the issue.

    Why should people vote if there is no-one to vote for, or their vote will be effectively thrown in the bin anyway?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dom wrote:
    We're not just doing that. It's going to be part of a group of articles around voting this May. However, we do feel that not voting is a valid choice - it doesn't neccessarily imply apathy.

    Dom
    Yeah, I agree that some people do choose not to vote for political reasons. But I believe that more people do not vote because of apathy or disinterest or ignorance.

    It is my opinion and suggestion that a website for young people should promote an interest politics. I understand that the rants are amusing and valid forms of expressing one's opinion, but if people read them and decide not to vote because of it, that would be sad.

    I remain, sir, your humble forum user.

    ps If anyone is intending not to vote, I'd encourage them to spoil their paper rather than not turn up at the polling station. I reckon that sends a more direct message to those in power.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spoiling a ballot paper doesn't send any message at all. I hear this argument a lot, and it is naive at best.

    As has already been said, an interest in politics and voter apathy are not the same. As has already been said, if people were not interested in politics then pressure groups would not have record memberships, and millions of people would not take to the street in protest.

    And if people aren't interested in who is running the country, that indicates a large malaise in the electoral system. If they're all the same, why vote?

    If you vote the serious and fundamental problems in the UK democratic system can be brushed under the carpet. It legitimises an inherently unfair and undemocratic electoral system.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What message does low voter turnout send to the politicians?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It doesn't give the electoral result legitmacy.

    But all this is to miss one crucial point: politicians don't care if you vote or not, so long as the people in marginal seats do.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Even with PR, a low turnout means that people are happy with the status quo (or at least that is how the commentators opine).

    Spoiling the paper shows an interest in democracy whilst showing disillusionment with the choices. The ability to vote is not something to be taken for granted IMHO.

    But I won't argue with you 'cos I'm at home on a slow connection. :p

    Don't vote if you want, but I'll be at the polling station no matter what choices I am offered.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    It doesn't give the electoral result legitmacy.

    Really?

    Not been mentioned much in the past few years has it? In terms of the legitimacy of the Labour Govt that is...

    Especially considering that more people abstained than actually voted Labour.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    fao THOSE WHO WISH TO ABSATAIN ...by way of a political statment ...
    turn up ...spoil your paper by way of a sign or slogan ...
    can we agree on a sign or slogan?
    this way ...they'll think it's an organisation ... spoilt banners making the news ...only if everyone who spoils them ...does it exactly the same way ...no ...they won't think it's an organisation ...they'll think it's a movement ...and thats just what it can be ...an anti fucking bullsit movement.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    this is what happens to your head if you dont vote
    sagital-extreme.jpg
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Pull a Brewster's Millions and collectively vote "None of the Above".

    There's your slogan MR. ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Pull a Brewster's Millions and collectively vote "None of the Above".

    There's your slogan MR. ;)
    not very exciting is it clan ...not exactly going to grab the attention of the youth vote if you know what i mean.
    needs a bit of spin at least ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Didn't realise that sexy was called for, only truth.

    But if you insist, how 'bout "Day of Reckoning!" :nervous:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Didn't realise that sexy was called for, only truth.

    But if you insist, how 'bout "Day of Reckoning!" :nervous:
    clan ...even the anti bullshit movement needs a little glamour, in this day and age ...spin doesn't have to be dishonest ...strobe lights aren't dishonest.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    *sigh* I suppose youre right considering the pablum mentalities of so many sheeple out there.

    So does my second suggestion come closer to your expectations for glitz?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    [QUOTE=Clandestine
    So does my second suggestion come closer to your expectations for glitz?[/QUOTE]
    bit doom laden ...and undirected doom at that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah well, gave it my best shot. Guess youll have to find your own slogan then ;)
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