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No indoctrination - just common sense
I bet it pisses you off immensly that we are the future (and a strong one at that), while you deal with your fishing quotas...
Debateable whether Judaism is a race or a religion. You can certainly have Jews who are not religious, but still see themselves (and are seen by others) as Jews. Also he wasn't refering to Israel (which consists of Jews and non-Jews btw), but Jews specifically - whether or not they lived in Israel (and in fact lumped together all Jews as supporters of Israel - which isn't the case). Now he could have been basing his criticism of Judaism if he'd been referring to their religious practices (eg not eating Pork), but he's not. If you don't find it racist I'd hate to see what you do defining as racism.
I don't think you have to be a supporter of Israel to say that the moral link between the deliberate extermination of 6 million people and an occupation (no matter how brutal at times) are not morally comparable. If you can point me to Israeli death camps where Palestinians children, old people and the handicapped are killed straight away and the remainder are starved, worked to the point of exhaustion and then killed I may change my view (and before you point to an example where IDF have illegally killed a couple of children can I say don't bother - they are no-where near morally the same)
Rape? Have you examples of institutional rape? Or are you just making it up because its a particually heinous crime and you want to paint Israel in as bad a light as possible. If you do, why not go to the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion and you could add such crimes as eating babies to your list
Anyway, it's not really about the faults of Israel all the time, because that's what we always get down to. Israel are building houses in Palestinian land Why? Who knows. Lets talk about what the Palestinians have done wrong. Well, as a state, I'm not sure if they even officially exist, but lots of individuals have just gone on blowing up bombs.
I guess it comes down to the cancer argument - you have a growth that could be cancer (and therefore lethal) so you remove it. I think both sides see the other as this potential growth, I bet you could put a Palestinian and an Israeli in the same room - any two picked at random - and if you didn't tell them who the other was they'd probably get on just fine. It's a stupid mindset both people's have that have led to this conflict - that the other side is different. They're all bloody human beings.
What are you referring to here? I see this as nothing more than a provocative comment that aids none to the debate. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but it does come off as a "we're better than you".
As for you being the future, that fact does cause despair, since you have learned nothing from the past and even go so far as to convince yourself of the legitimacy of revisionist Zionist myths and lies.
NQA, You speak of scope, I speak of consistency of "principle", if you cannot grasp the quite recognisable consistency of dehumanisation and brutality of an entire people for the advancement of the claims of an ideology, then you need some remedial work in logic. Zionism is inherently as guilty as Nazism in that regard.
Oh, and I'd do some research if you think its only a few hundred purposely and callously killed by Zionists since they first set their designs on the well populated and legally owned Arab lands of Palestinian beginning at the turn of the 20th Century.
Dis, whilst you wallow in the lies you so love, I leave you with the words of another Israeli leader which emphasize the true nature of the Zionist agenda...
And that having been stated before the state itself existed for your claim to have any bearing whatsoever. Israelis are just as accountable for crimes against humanity as anyone they dare point a finger at; perhaps more so for having themselves been on the receiving end and daring to excuse themselves when they perpetrate the same upon others, to any degree.
Many decent and truly moral Anti-Zionist Jews recognise that fact.
That would be legally owned by the Turks, then?
Feel please free to give your intepretation on the history of Zionism and Israel. How else are us lessers to worship at the your feet if you don't tell us the truth...
And once again, thank you for showing how similarly you can gloss over the time consuming efforts of those with whom you claim you wish to "discuss" the issue by posting inane and snide offhand quips. Learning from Mat well obviously.
The true history is not "mine" to give you. Go read some of the many scholarly works on the matter like I and many others have done if you wish to comprehend the truth behind the revisionism of mainstream media.
Therefore, I list below some recommended reading for you and anyone else who wishes to enlighten themselves to the truth behind this neverending struggle...
The Question of Palestine
by Edward W. Said
Vintage Books 1992; ISBN 0-679-73988-2
Expulsion of the Palestinians:
The Concept of ‘Transfer’ in Zionist Political Thought, 1882-1948
by Nur Masalha
Institute for Palestine Studies 1992; ISBN 0-887-28242-3
All That Remains:
The Palestinian Villages Occupied and Depopulated by Israel in 1948
by Walid Khalidi (Editor)
Institute for Palestine Studies 1992; ISBN 0-887-28224-5
Conquest Through Immigration:
How Zionism Turned Palestine Into a Jewish State
by George W. Robnett
ASIN B00005VON9
The Founding Myths of Israel
by Ze’ev Sternhell, Israeli historian
Princeton University Press; ISBN 0-691-00967-8
‘Democracy’ in Israel
by Norman F. Dacey
ISBN 0-911-03868-X
The Rise and Fall of Palestine:
A Personal Account of the Intifada Years
by Norman G. Finkelstein
University of Minnesota Press 1996; ISBN 0-816-62859-9
Zionism in the Age of Dictators
by Lenni Brenner
Lawrence Hill & Co; ISBN 0-882-08163-2
The Making of the Arab Israeli Conflict 1947-51
by Ilan Pappe
I B Tauris & Co Ltd; ISBN 1-850-43819-6
Not that I expect you to bother obtaining or reading any of them, presumption and myth are always far easier to reinforce in the unquestioning mind, just turn on the tv set or pick up the tabloids and enjoy the pablum.
The one issue I have with them, quickly skimming over them, is that they seem to have a pro palestinian bias. I think it would be more suitable doing readings from educated peoples on both sides of the debate arguing either way - whether that's for more help for Palestine through diplomacy or whether Palestine needs help policing itself.
So I guess that my claims actually hold as much validity as yours
Do you want a reading list helping the cause of Israel? I really gave you too much credit if you think that producing such a list makes your words more true.
Zion, Zion, Zion, Zion...
The day you can match the authors of those works for depth of research, extent of professional experience and international recognition of scholarship is the day you can lay any claim to credibility.
But you keep believing mommy and daddy's bedtime stories, its obviously much easier on your frail young mind.
Israel doesn't need that much help though, Israel's been a state there for at least 30 years now, and it's not going to get wiped off the face of the earth is it? Zionism, by my understanding, is the movement for the creation of a Jewish state. Now we have a Jewish state, why is the Zionist agenda still pushed when there is clearly no risk of losing it (especially with America at its backs).
I am just confused by people saying they want a Jewish homeland when there already is one...
And what makes you think I've got my views from the tabloids (especially given that much of the UK media is not particually biased towards the Palestinian side).
Though at least this time I disagreed with you i'm not refered to as a Sheeple - which is an improvement of sorts I suppose.
If you examine the list and bothered to research the authors, you'd find more than sufficient credibility to assuage your ridiculous claim. Also, if you had any intellectual honesty whatsoever, youd note that most of those listed are Jewish themselves.
But like I said before, its clearly easier for the slothful mind to seek justifications rather than pursue open enquiry. Rest easy in the myths.
What is the justification for Israel building these homes, especially at such a sensitive time?
Seriously, what is your problem? Why do you thrive on being such a pain?
Of course people who have written the books I'd advertise will never get recognition from you. Fuck their experience, education and work - they support Israel. There is no reason discussing with you as you have proved yourself to be as one sided as I am, on so many occasions
You are no better than a 19 year old Zionist indoctrinated JAP. So, how does it feel?
Cause I can't find Arabs, Palestinians or Muslims who would support my case? Joke.
Whatever you direct towards me, goes exactly for you too darling.
However by only going for a certain selection of books which represent only one side you are less likely to reach the 'truth' (whatever that means in historical terms) that a broad selection which covers both sides of the argument. I would actually have respected you if you had said and 'oh to provide another view here is acccount which gives another side of the argument'
Please do not mistake the fact that people disagree with you for stupidity on their part.
And apparently you read what you want to read, and not what's written either. You're dragging yourself down on my low level.
Omg, what a joyous time we can have together here in the pits of ignorance reserved for Zionist JAPS like me, and fishing analysists like you :hyper: :wave:
The authors I have cited place scholarship and fact first and foremost and whilst exposing the lies of Zionism they do not advocate the eradication of the State of Israel. Your preferred authors (if there be much beyond citations from likudnik The Jerusalem Post) all begin and end with blind adherence to and defence of Israel at all cost and irrespective of its apartheid, ethnocidal perpetuation.
If you had any true desire to learn rather than simply and continually justify your naive hand me down beliefs, you'd be far more self critical of those beliefs and perhaps even dare to challenge them by seeking out and reading the listed works.
Perhaps another few decades of unresolved conflict will open your eyes to the truth you so vehemently deny in your present youthful beligerence.
That wasn't me
Again, an unfounded claim. You analyst experience shines through. Maybe I shall blame all the fuck ups in the EU on the likes of you who clearly don't know how to do their jobs?
Nice wish for the future.
Most normal people wish for peace and good health.
Not according to legal deed of ownership and International Law it isnt. Just more smug ideological lies, which will keep this conflict going as Israel refuses to be held accountable for its crimes. Same as it has been for more than a half century.
Not according to legal deed of ownership and International Law it isnt. Just more smug ideological lies, which will keep this conflict going as Israel refuses to be held accountable for its crimes. Same as it has been for more than a half century.[/QUOTE]
Who the fuck was refering to the "legal deed of ownership and International Law"? As I said last time this is according to the average Israeli.
Focuse here...
And the latter point is no wish for the future, but rather a recognition of its inevitability based on the same illegal behaviour I've watched Israel pursuing for longer than you've been alive.
Perhaps one day youll even wake up to the reality that it's Israel and its leaders who are behind every derailed attempt at peace, not the Palestinians. Peace means letting go, opening up (i.e. to true pluralism and social justice) and compromising, something that Zionist ideology cannot accept.
Know the best thing about it though? You still feel the need to engage in discussion with me, so apparently I am not doing everything wrong
But it's not about securing the town. It's about Peace. They are jeopordising the peace process for the sake of a town. I'm looking around for a map of the area, can't find one.
As for the average Israeli - what about the average Palestinian? I'm by no means saying you personally are accountable, but can't you see that at a time like this, this is nothing but a defiant gesture for all the extreme Zionists that there will never be a compromise. In politics it doesn't come down to the practicalities of the people who are going to live in their homes - it's all about symbolism and gestures.