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Ah yes and do those who complain about anti-immigration strap bombs to themselves and wander into cafes and buses? Do they gun down a pregnant woman and her children? Do they brutally murder 'collaborators' and hang them upside down.
There's plenty of blame on both sides, but don't try to paint the Palestinians as some sort of innocents living under a Nazi like regime when they are clearly not
But hasn't Palestine had to endure years of aggression from Israel?
Anyway, that's not my point. Earlier in the thread, I asked why Israel (and it's leadership) is allowing this construction to go ahead given the sensitivity of the situation. If they want peace they've got to stop what they're doing for a minute and step back and talk to the Palestinians like equals. Not 'Ok, we'll listen to what you have to say, but we're just going to carry on'. Even if in the end they build these homes anyway, symbolically they are a big slap on the face of the peace process since illegal settlements by Israelis are one of the key focus' of the peace process.
Palestines' terrorists a.k.a freedom fighters would be better off doing economic damage by attacking construction sites in Palestine rather than attacking people. At least, that's what I'd do - they'd get more respect for it anyway. But of course, in the end everyone wants to see a peaceful resolution.
Trying to retrieve your position now are we with these weasel words?
Israel has very right to exist, it does exist, and will continue to exist. FACT.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_israel_legal.php
Oh - not all Palestinians are peaceful - I don't think you'll find that I have ever made that claim - it would be damn stupid to do so.
And, yes, there are Palestinians who do commit violence - as occupied people have done in many liberation struggles.
However, you may or may not be aware that the organised militant groups have agreed a period of calm - which can only be a good thing surely?
This however is an act of provocation by Israel which is likely to have repurcussions for Palestinians and militants alike.
The point I was making is simply this - you are confusing colonisers with economic migrants - and I pointed out that you were making an extremely dubious analogy.
Do you really see moral equivalence here?
Excellent - now you're a non-violent christian. In fact one who thinks that people should turn the other cheek - just like that Jesus suggested.
However, it seems that you only think the weak should be passive - you support states bombing babies to bits.
Yes?
You've ignored the rest of my post. I never said there wouldn't or shouldn't be a state of Israel, all I was saying that it would have been a better strategy and gained more sympathy if they had attacked symbols of Israeli aggession rather than Israeli people. What the hell are weasel words?
An excellent bit of pro-Israeli propaganda.
If you weren't a troll I'd invite you to critique what I wrote and challenge it - but you are a troll and an obvious one, and I could find more intersting things to do with my time - like polishing my doorbell or something.
But from your posts you imply that the only source of violence is the Israeli's. I've never seen you condem violence from the other side. Still at least with the above comment we have a start
And the Israeli's also commit violence - as people who fear genocidal violence from their neighbours have done in many struggles.
I am aware of it. I am also aware that after the last Palestinian atrocity (which if I remember you initially suggested might be the work of Israeli militants) the Israeli's also showed restraint. P'haps you would also like to congratulate them?
Quite possibly. That however is not my point. My point is that many posters on this board seem to blame the Israeli's solely and ignore the fact that the Palestinians have also committed violence against the Israelis (and violence that pre-dates the Infitada)
I would suggest that a coloniser almost by definition is an economic migrant. And whilst it is not a direct analogy it seems to me to point out the hypocrisy of blaming everything on the Israeli's and none on the Palestinians.
But I don't see any moral difference between the Israeli's and Palestinians. Both have people who want peace at any price. Both have people who's aim is to utterly destroy the other side and no compromises are possible. And a majority on both sides want peace, but not peace at any price.
So, which side is committing provocation right now?
:wave:
At this specific time Israel. But then that doesn't invalidate my point that both sides are to blame and that the Palestinians aren't total innocents.
Or do you feel that planting bombs in nightclubs isn't a provocation?
When was the first suicide bombing - which group committed it - and what was the event that took place immediately before it?
When did the occupation start?
And, in relation to the last bombing - who was responsible for it?
Irrelevant. I could ask you three questions designed to put the Palestinians in a bad light. It just depends on what questions you ask.
tsk, tsk... you almost seemed to be engaging a rational intelligent debate and then you go and spoil it
No - you are the one who says that suicide bombings equal moral equivalence.
You want a rational, decontextualised intelligent debate do you?
Equal to what? As I have no idea what they are equal to I probably haven't said it.
However I do find blame on both sides. If that equals moral equivalence - so be it...
I saw this group of Big kids holding a little kid against the wall. They kept prodding him with their fingers, calling him names, and banging his head against the wall. Then he kicked one of them and they really beat him up. He got mad and kicked again. And they really beat him up again.
I realised that the little kid was also to blame, so I took his shoes away so he didn't hurt the big kids.
Did I do the right thing?
Oh yeah, they were also demanding his money and his gameboy, so, as he kicked them, I took the gameboy and money and gave it to them.
I thought you might be do so, you strike me as the bullying kind. Let me guess the big kids are Jordan, Syria and Egypt and the small kid you helped beat the fuck out of was Israel.
No wonder you're confused...
Are you sure that Jordan, Israel and Syria pose a threat to Israel now?
Or even that they posed one in 1967?
(Clue: the same nation whose own government has long been kept stocked with hardline Zionist dual loyalists)
Yawn. I happen to know US and Israel are close. However that has absolutely no relevance to whether or not the Palestinians are innocents.
They weren't referring to that though - you said (metaphorically speaking) that Jordan, Egypt and Syria were the 'big bullies'. Whereas it's quite obvious Israel and America have all the guns all the weapons and all the money.
True - but then my response was in reply to FTP's rather stupid analogy. Though to draw an analogy myself - this just demonstrates the stupidity of saying one sides to blame, because the others can point to something before it.
Your response was to pretend that the little kid was the big kids, and the big kids were the little kid.
And there you were talking about " rational intelligent debate" ........
I prefer it to be honest as well. And so far, all you seem to want to do is play games.
how the fuck does building more homes over illegally gained land, or disputed if tats what you believe, actually help??
What a strange twisted mind you must have!
What the hell are weasel words?[/QUOTE]
Words used to hide the truth, to deceive and confuse, to act as a smokescreen - get the picture now shyboy?
Thats what Rami G. Khouri says millions would like to know as well!