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I think I actually asked you how old you were.
I then suggested that you were behaving like a toddler.
I didn't call you a child at all.
Whatever.
I'm far more interested in your claim that I defended the bombing. and in your answer to the question.
Your comment about militants acting is an attempt at justification of the resulting action. Fuck, not only immature, but you're stupid as well.
How is the question a justification?
And what is your answer to the question?
Is that how you always argue? Twist, turn, and contradict yourself... until the person in the discussion says "Fuck it, you're not worth it" whilst you claim some sort of weird victory?
No. You're the one twisting my words. And even in the absence of the context of the question, I fail to see how it serves as a justificatioin for bombing.
Heres the Jerusalem Institute of strategic studies finding again:
and heres the statement that I was directly responding to:
So, what is your answer to the question?
Actually more that the subject's not worth it.
I just enjoy laughing at you. You're a bit like Luke you see...
Let me get this straight.
You believe that those that support Israel deserve to be punished? Are you actually hoping that Israel’s supporters are oppressed, dehumanised and degraded? Aren’t a large section of Israel’s supporters Jewish? Hmm. :rolleyes:
You're starting to sound like Bush, isn't evil one of his favourite words? Anyway whatever, when you come out making blanket judgements like that and just start screaming evil this evil that you don't really help your case.
Riight okay. What false history is this? Oh sorry I haven’t been reading Clandestine’s favourite amateur home-made, conspiracy-theory websites where the author hides behind anonymity. :rolleyes:
Oh please enlighten us Clandestine...
Actually, if anyone is behaving like lukesh it is yourself.
You call me wetthepants, then get huffy about being called ageist, then claim that I justified bombings, and then can't answer the simple question - "Do you expect Palestinian militants to ignore shootings of Palestinian civilians?".
I guess you think that the Israeli intelligence bods in the Jerusalem Institute of Strategic Studies are "justifying" suicide bombings as well when they conclude that as a result of of the brutal military response to the outbreak of the Intifada: "the phenomenon of suicide attacks swelled to unprecedented dimensions"
And in the same way that JtR and disillusioned don't want to discuss the deaths of Palestinians prior to the bombings, nor do you want to answer the question about whether you expect Palestinian militants to ignore those deaths.
Which shows an unwillingness to acknowledge what is really happening, and an overwillingness to smear in order to close down a line of debate.
Anyway, as you've deemed the subject not worth it, I guess thats the end of that. I will think twice before responding to you again though, because it ends up being a highly unsatisfactory exprience every time.
I probably am and it’s a clumsily made point…I don’t think anti-Zionism automatically equates to anti-Semitism but I think there’s a definite link. Now rabid anti-Zionism is acceptable there are a lot of anti-Semites hiding behind it...But you're right it's a dangerous link to make but sadly I think it applies to some people.
True.
:banghead: by that definition you have reason to call me or anyone on these boards an anti-semite because of this "link" ok, so i can call you a racist because you are against arab terrorists...no? thought not.
Clandestine knows a whole lot of soundbytes.
By anti-semitism, do you mean hatred or prejudice towards people just because they're jewish?
And, if so, are you against hatred or prejudice towards any people based on their ethnicity or race?
Because, to be frank, the only person who has even come close to expressing hatred or prejudice towards a people because of their ethnicity or race on this thread is your very own self.
Because those responsible for the suicide bombing clearly weren't doing what they did for peace. In fact, the bomber said in his video he was doing it to undermine the PA .
But somehow, your statement can easily be, and was read as:
1) all the Palestinians don't want peace
2) Palestinians don't love their children,
3) all the Palestinians are terrorists.
For someone so mindful of the evils of hatred and prejudice based on ethnicity, one would imagine that you would be careful not to allow anything you said to be misconstrued so easily.
Clandestine certainly made it clear who he was refering to:
"Zionist apologists"
"the militant, apartheid colonial era ideology of Zionism has betrayed all notions of social justice enshrined in Judaic teaching"
"every bit as evil as any ideology which oppressed Jews in past generations."
and, your sensitivity meant you had to resort to this:
"Aren’t a large section of Israel’s supporters Jewish? Hmm. "
"I don’t think anti-Zionism automatically equates to anti-Semitism but I think there’s a definite link."
and this
"Now rabid anti-Zionism is acceptable there are a lot of anti-Semites hiding behind it."
in order to manufacture an accusation against him.
Imagine how easy it would have been to point that finger if he had said:
Either you are against hatred and prejudice towards all members of a group, or you are not.
If you are, then you need to be more careful about expressing yourself.
speaks the truth though...i know these days both sides are as bad as each other but if you look at the fundamentals of the issue you can't blame the Palestinian cause not one bit and you know that aswell.
What do you mine by "both sides"?
Israeli's who kill innocent Palestinians and Palestinians who kill innocent Israeli's, i think if the Palestinians want to have a war...they should target the Israeli army only or government buildings...people who deserve to be attacked (awaits flaming)
ETA: when i say these days i mean the general situation over the past few years...not since the new peace process where the Palestinians can only be applauded for.
Is one "side" a well funded army -
And the other "side" is what exactly?
i'm not on about causes/ability/firearms/numbers/finances or nothing i'm talking about them both killing innocents...thats it!
Talking about who?
Armies/militias/individuals?
What is a "side"?
IDF and Freedom Fighters usually...i don't mean they're as bad as each other in terms of killing.. the IDF has killed far far more i just mean in terms of their methodology and the brutality of each killing innocents...but on a tangent i suppose the IDF are worse because they also force people out of their homes and build big illegal walls aswell.
The IDF is the army of the Israeli state, which is elected by the people of Israel - it is under the direct control of the state, and is subject to International law. Inside of the Occupied Territories it is an occupying power. So we have a state that has taken control of someone elses land, and who controls that land through brute strength.
The militants are not under of the control of the Palestinian state, because, the Palestinian state does not exist. They are individuals who have joined militant groups to resist the occupation of their land. They cannot be said to represent the Palestinian people, because they have not been voted for by the Palestinian people. The PA has been voted for, but does not have direct control of the militant groups, who tend to be secretive about what they do, because by joining a group they are at immediate risk of being killed. There are various groups with differing aims and objectives. Because of the severe restrictions, often the groups are not even able to have effective communication between different cells, each of which might act autonomously, and without warning.
That is what makes the statement "both sides are as bad as each other" seem very strange.
It does suggest that there are 2 similar bodies engaged in a mutual war - whereas there is an occupying state and an occupied people.
oh yes i see your point now...no i wasn't reffering to the Palestinian state as a whole...just any individual who'd be evil enough to kill an innocent individual.
Okay - Its best to be clear with terminology, no?
it is but when you're just typing away without a care in the world and you understand what you're typing, you don't really take these things into consideraiton and yes it can get quite messy and confusing but point taken
Yes. What else would I mean?
I am against hatred or prejudice towards people based on their ethnicity or race. Stupid question. :rolleyes:
Bollocks. Care to find a quote to back your lies up?
I'm getting bored now. Where did I say that all Palestinians are terrorists who don't love their children and don't want peace? :rolleyes: You're either not reading my posts properly or just totally missing the point.
I don't know why I bother trying to discuss this with you.
You did say that when the palestinians love their children more than they hate israelis then there could be peace - but this is worthless until Israel stops being such a bully, for want of a better word.
He said palestinian terrorists