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Those are the group who will maintain the cycle, not the ordinary Palestinians and Israelis... they are just the victims.
The PLO went for 2 states. The recent elections confirmed that the majority of Palestinians support that. Hamas looks set to move into electoral politics in the next election, and have a reasonable chance of beating the PA as things stand.
The extremists can be defeated by restoring dignity to the people of Palestine, by giving them a stake in their own society.
They can also be maintained by failing to do that.
As for the zionist extremists, well, Gaza shows us that settlements are not forever. Israel is apparently willing to press ahead with disengagement despite the threats of terror from them.....
A terrorist:
Any action intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians, non-combatants when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.
Source
Attacking civilians on buses and in queues is terrorism, not a struggle for liberation, or 'resistance". Don't try and sugarcoat it.
Well they've admitted it now. So much for the usual Palestinian terrorists not being responsible.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4301249.stm
They want peace?
Maybe when the Palestinian terrorists love their children more than they hate Jews peace will come, to paraphrase Golda Meir.
From the article
This is like what happened in Ireland there is going to be factions and groups which are unwilling to compromise or reach agreement so these people will be trying to undermine the peace process.
Seven held over Tel Aviv bombing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4299995.stm
From the report
Also
The PLO is willing to deal and reach a compromise now and have helped in arresting suspects. Israel has to keep to its side of the bargain
even though you didn't say it but the fact that you take this statement seriously worries me, have you got any idea of what these people's motives are? they hate their children, is that it
i believe that the powers to be in the Palestinian world want peace, of course not everyone is going to change overnight, the RIRA murdered 29 people in omagh, does that mean sinn fein should autmoatically have got the blame? nope of course not, give them a chance will ya!
Lets look at some other reknown quotes of hers to see the true nature of the zionist ideologue...
I hope one day you are as dehumanised and brutalised as the Palestinians have been for more than a half century by this apartheid abomination of a state and we'll then see who you consider the true victims to be.
Of course, Palestinians aren't like other human beings are they? :rolleyes:
Strangely enough it was Golda Meir who denied that the Palestinians even existed. She seems to have been proven wrong on that one.
I don't wish that on anyone. Its time for the dehumanisation and hatred to end.
The Zionist legacy of atrocities began well before the world was shocked into handing over legally owned Palestinian land to European zionists to assuage the collective sense of guilt over the holocaust. Until that legacy is acknowledged by the state of Israel itself and atoned for, all talk of peace initiatives (and ive watched enough repeated rounds of such "peace intiatives" over decades to see the same charade for what it is) will come to nought.
Peace only comes through acknowledgement of guilt by those who began the violence in the first place, there is no other legitimate or lasting route to atonement and conciliation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4301447.stm
1. "Israel uncovers Mossad attempts to arouse citizens anger and paranoia to maintain Israeli dominant status quo and give outward cause for UNSC approvals for further military action against Syria (or the Palestinians, etc.)",
2. "Hardline Right-wing Settler group found to be behind Tel Aviv bombing".
Such headlines wouldnt advance what is transparently the ongoing re-design by both Israel and the US of the Middle East.
Not really the case in South Africa though, was it?
When a political system becomes financially unviable, then its adherents are capable of rapid transformation.
USAID has much to answer for in this scenario.
My point is that for Israel to continue as a viable, modern and truly democratic state entity (i.e. embracing true pluralism rather than clininging to notions of exclusivistic pre-eminence only for Jews) then it will have to first acknowledge its own ongoing terrorism of the once formerly peaceful inhabitants of that land prior to the land clearances, ethnocides and forced expulsions which killed and brutalised thousands and drove upwards of 800,000 from their homes and villages (which were summarily bulldozed and built over to create the myth of a "land without a people for a people without a land").
I have no wish to see Israel "driven into the sea", but understand that without the conciliation that comes from true atonement and contrition, this conflict will continue to perpetuate itself to further the power of an ideology that should have died out at the end of the 1800's.
Judging by this thread, western opinion is a large part of the problem. At least people didn't (couldn't) bend over backwards to justify Apartheid, at the end. The disinformation, smear tactics and unbending belief in the right to perpertrate misery on a people beggars belief.
And the irony of the 2 key planks of defence - accusations of hatred and racism....
Still, the ideological underpinnings are coming apart - I believe it can't be sustained much longer.
And then you come along and depress me with your "I've seen it so many times before"
:impissed:
That so many prefer to think each rotation is somehow any different from its predecessor is simply demonstration of the PR-driven nature of mainstream decontextualised, sanitised spin which passes for accurate reporting.
You've missed the point. No surprise there. :rolleyes:
I haven’t said that Palestinian terrorists and those that support Palestinian terrorism hate their children. My point is however that for somebody to support or carry out a terrorist attack against Israelis there must be a deep feeling of hatred. In many case a fanatical, obsessive hatred. The terrorist organisations, their supporters and those they recruit act on those feelings and carry out atrocities as they did last night.
Do their actions help the Palestinian cause? Do they make the region a better place for their children to grow up in? Do they make a better future for their children? The answer to all of these questions is no. And it’s as a result of the terrorism that Israel regrettably has to defend itself – and it’s a sad and unfortunate effect of Israel’s acts of self defence that innocent Palestinians suffer.
To paraphrase the late, great Golda Meir again:
"We can forgive you for killing our sons. But we will never forgive you for making us kill yours." (to Anwar Saddat prior to the peace talks).
Jesus Christ...so it's all the Palestinians fault, is it? you're the one missing the point, why does palestine have to change to suit israels needs, why can't a compromise be met, "making us kill yours" Holy Fuck i can't get over that, i od't have a clue who Golda Meir is but i'm sure he/she whatever it is is a fucking top class prick.
Wasn't Sadat Egyptian?
I refer back to the Jerusalem Institute for Strategic Studies article - where this point was made by Israeli intelligence bods about the handling of the start of the Intifada.:
That flies in the face of the idea Israel being forced to kill civilians against its will. As does the fact that the army dropped automatic investigations of Palestinian civilian deaths.
No one says they hate their children. Not at all.
But I find it worrying that some prominent Palestinian figures advocate using the children as weapons, as for example Arafat did when he refered to the Palestinian woman's womb as the greatest weapon against Israel. Or when the wife of a high-ranking Hamas or Hizbollah leader (can't remember) on a tv-show broadcasted all over the world mentions that she hasn't fulfilled all of her obligations as none of her sons are shahids.
Why so personal and hateful?
As opposed to disillusioned's 'caring and sharing' sentiments you mean?
Obviously Clandestine's remarks were harsh enough for you to respond like this
Yes. And you made no response to disillusioneds disquieting diatribe.
Right?
Clandestines comments were a direct reaction....
That it his general opinion aimed at terrorist Palestinians, not personally at anyone on this board.
lol
But then again, what doe sone expect from a person who criticises someone's debating style when they ask a question that you don't want to answer.
70 deaths or four. Which is worse. It's a simple enough question.