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FAO luke.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Another Fact:

    Emphysema Suffers Benefit

    During a later interview, Tashkin congratulated me on the tip I'd given him that marijuana used for emphysema produced good results among persons we knew.

    He laughed at me originally, because he had presumed that marijuana aggravated emphysema, but after reviewing his evidence found that, except in the rarest of cases, marijuana was actually of great benefit to emphysema suffers due to the opening and dilation of the bronchial passages.

    And so the relief reported to us by cannabis smoking emphysema patients was confirmed.

    Marijuana smoke is not unique in its benefits to the lungs. Yerba Santa, Colt's foot, Horehound, and other herbs have traditionally been smoked to help the lungs.

    Tobacco and its associated dangers have so prejudiced persons against "smoking" that most persons believe cannabis smoking to be as or more dangerous than tobacco. With research banned, these public health and safety facts are not readily available.

    In December 1997, we asked Dr. Tashkin again, and he unequivocably stated that "marijuana does not cause or potentiate emphysema in any way." In addition, there has not been one case of lung cancer ever attributed to smoking cannabis.

    . . . And So On
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    With research banned, these public health and safety facts are not readily available.
    So there's no evidence base and you expect us to believe anecdotal evidence from one doctor?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    So there's no evidence base and you expect us to believe anecdotal evidence from one doctor?
    one doctor!!!!
    i have provided you with a mass of research ...and the link to the book it all comes from which in turn gives you all the doctors scientists universeties etc etc where the info comes from and still you want to believe the demonising bullshit about cannabis!

    the greatest plant on earth ...the only reason it is illegal is because it would damage big bizz.

    A $100,000 CHALLENGE TO THE WORLD
    TO PROVE US WRONG
    IF all fossil fuels and their derivatives, as well as trees for paper and construction, were banned in order to save the planet, reverse the Greenhouse Effect, and stop deforestation;

    THEN there is only one known annually renewable natural resource that is capable of providing the overall majority of the world's paper and textiles; meet all of the world's transportation, industrial and home energy needs, while simultaneously reducing pollution, rebuilding the soil, and cleaning the atmosphere all at the same time . . .

    And that substance is - the same one that did it all before -

    Cannabis Hemp...Marijuana!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't buy the big business conspiracy theory either. If big business could make money out of cannabis hemp they'd lobby for its legalisation.

    And a book does not an evidence base make. :)

    Hey, roll, enjoy your cannabis but don't impose it on those who don't need it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    I don't buy the big business conspiracy theory either. If big business could make money out of cannabis hemp they'd lobby for its legalisation.

    And a book does not an evidence base make. :)

    Hey, roll, enjoy your cannabis but don't impose it on those who don't need it.
    your missing the point.
    big business would loose out.
    if i can grow a few plants on my window sill which provide non toxic painkillers glucoma medice lung cleaners appetite improvers tumour helpers poultices etc etc ...the drug companies loose.
    if farmers started growing it for bio fuel ...the farmers gain the oil companies loose massively.
    for paper ...the the wood pulp/timber interests which are massive concerns loose out to the farmer.
    these businesess have millions invested in mechanical means storage transport manufacture that would all have to be altered and would destroy existing monopolies. )dupont)
    or haven't you read much of this have you ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    I guess the trouble with drugs being illegal is that no-one knows everything about the drugs because the content varies so much.

    But psychiatrists are qualified to diagnose mental illness, and offer suggestions on predisposing or precipitating factors which may have contributed to that illness.

    Sorry, but when you've been working in the field for a while I'll listen to you.
    Otherwise, I'll go by my own knowledge and experience.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think fully legalising all drugs is just mad.

    Diamorphine should be class C schedule IV like the benzo's are now. GP's should be able to prescribe it in oral, injectable and smokable form.

    Cannabis should be available through licenced and carefully controlled cafe's.

    MDMA and its 'family' of drugs should be available through licenced druggists.

    And I have no idea what to do with cocaine.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda

    And I have no idea what to do with cocaine.
    well ...you roll a twenty pound note up and ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But of course you wouldnt be sharing that note with anyone because you can be catching Hep B that way.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    But of course you wouldnt be sharing that note with anyone because you can be catching Hep B that way.
    what happened to all the fun in the world ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    I don't buy the big business conspiracy theory either. If big business could make money out of cannabis hemp they'd lobby for its legalisation.

    And a book does not an evidence base make. :)

    Hey, roll, enjoy your cannabis but don't impose it on those who don't need it.

    Just a final point i don't think has been mentioned.

    Legalising cannabis isn't imposing it on anyone, how you could come to that conclusion is beyond me. As has been said, the Amsterdam situation has led to LESS dope smokers per % of population than in Britain or the USA.

    The only system that imposes anything on anybody is current legislation which forces cannabis smokers (a lot of us anyway) to smoke soapbar - which is basically very low quality, very crudely cut and polluted hash. The risks to public health from smoking shitebar are presumably enormous, considering what it's usually cut with. I think the French refer to it as 'Chernobyl'. I've seen people who smoke alot of it spitting out blood after taking bong hits.

    People smoke it 'cos proper grass isn't always easy to find (not cheap either - £40 per quarter Oz which lasts me about a day or 2), and personally i've rarely come across proper hash either...the main dealer I used to get grass from got busted recently...so, seeing how i can't grow a few plants to cover my own supply without risk of jail/criminal conviction, the only option is smoking soapbar when grass isn't available...

    The government is fucking with people's health, badly...it's an utter scandal and only a fool can't see what's happening.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's appropriate here to notice, that these sacramental substances containing special power, have come to be known in our current culture as "psychedelic". This word is actually the combination of two Greek words: Psyche meaning soul; and Delos meaning clear or visible. So properly defined, a psychedelic substance is that which allows one to clearly perceive the soul.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The challenge that we are confronted with today is not how to eliminate such influences from our current culture as the knee-jerk response of the political machinery would have us believe, but more rationally, how do we integrate these extremely powerful elements back into our culture, so that they may have a positive and life-transforming influence. Isn't it strange that all we hear about is drug abuse, but nothing about drug use? It's as if appropriate and responsible behavior in regard to these substances, isn't even allowed into our collective consciousness or public dialogue. And so what we refuse to address as a society doesn't somehow magically disappear, but is driven underground where it becomes distorted, dysfunctional and pathological.

    As means of an analogy, at a young age children should never be allowed to play with fire. Every society on earth shares this belief. And rightly so. But on the other hand, as the child reaches a certain level of understanding it is important that he or she is taught the properties of fire, its dangers as well as its benefits. And as these individuals then reach a certain level of maturity, they themselves will be able to responsibly use this dangerous yet beneficial element. This is part of becoming an intelligent and responsible adult.

    Our society however, refuses to allow individuals to become responsible adults. Under our system of laws individuals are all treated as irresponsible children. Information is suppressed, and any real education about psychoactive substances is completely lacking. There is simply no healthy and appropriate context in which responsible drug use can find a place.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    Sorry, but when you've been working in the field for a while I'll listen to you.
    Otherwise, I'll go by my own knowledge and experience.
    That's fair.

    But which part of that did you disagree with?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    That's fair.

    But which part of that did you disagree with?
    So why attack other countries Kentish?

    I really cant understand the reason why
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Spliffie
    Legalising cannabis isn't imposing it on anyone, how you could come to that conclusion is beyond me.
    More people would be exposed to it if it were more widely and more openly available?
    has led to
    Really? Do you think that would be the same in this country?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by eternalsunshine
    So why attack other countries Kentish?

    I really cant understand the reason why
    Are you in the right thread? :confused:
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    Originally posted by Kentish
    More people would be exposed to it if it were more widely and more openly available?

    I think it fair to say that the drug laws as they stand don't do any good - infact they seem to make the problem worse.
    Surely the worst way to confront drugs is to push the market underground, into the hands of organised crime? You jsut have to look what happened when alcohol was prohibited in the US.
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Skive
    I think it fair to say that the drug laws as they stand don't do any good - infact they seem to make the problem worse.
    Surely the worst way to confront drugs is to push the market underground, into the hands of organised crime? You jsut have to look what happened when alcohol was prohibited in the US.
    But it's not the case that the drugs market is being pushed undergound - it already is underground.

    I think it stands to reason that drug use would increase if drugs were legalised and more readily available. That isn't necessarily bad if you are saying that by legalising and monitoring drug supply the quality would improve and therefore the negative effects decrease. But I have yet to be convinced of that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    But it's not the case that the drugs market is being pushed undergound - it already is underground.

    I think it stands to reason that drug use would increase if drugs were legalised and more readily available. That isn't necessarily bad if you are saying that by legalising and monitoring drug supply the quality would improve and therefore the negative effects decrease. But I have yet to be convinced of that.

    have you ever smoked dope, ever been high? tbh honest, if i smoke what i smoke now for the rest of life, i'll probably die at say 75 instead of 85, still i'm gonna be an old senile bastard and if i get mental problems, fuck it, i had fun, i know the youth are impressionable but look at amsterdam, it's legal there but far less people over there smoke it than we do
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by turlough
    have you ever smoked dope, ever been high? tbh honest, if i smoke what i smoke now for the rest of life, i'll probably die at say 75 instead of 85, still i'm gonna be an old senile bastard and if i get mental problems, fuck it, i had fun, i know the youth are impressionable
    No, I've never really been interested in drugs. I do drink, but generally I try to be healthy with what I put in my body. Oh, and when you're 75 you may actually want to live until you're 85. Don't write off old age as doom and gloom.
    but look at amsterdam, it's legal there but far less people over there smoke it than we do
    Cause and effect?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    No, I've never really been interested in drugs.

    ah, no wonder you tihnk what you think, no one in the world who hasn't taken drugs can know the truth about drugs, you can read 100 books and medical reports and all that but you'll never truly know, and that is a well known fact among drug users, here's a good analogy, ever go to the fun fair and see a massive ride and think "oh no i'm not oging on that, thats way too scary" then you eventually go on it and come out thinking "that wasn't too bad, actually that was fun, lets do it again" you'll then spend the rest of the night conivncing your nervous mate to go on the ride, you'll say "it looks scary but its good", some will believe you, some won't, its the same with drugs, i'll tell you this, if cannabis was legalised the world would be a better place and i supposse on cannabis users will know this fact, but you have a point, a valid one at that, maybe i'll never convince you but i'm gonna be arrogant and say, "i'm right"
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I accept that. It's a fair point.

    But the fact remains that drugs are harmful for some. I can't justify making the use of a harmful substance more widespread. And not just based on the medical effects, but the economics too.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    I accept that. It's a fair point.

    But the fact remains that drugs are harmful for some. I can't justify making the use of a harmful substance more widespread. And not just based on the medical effects, but the economics too.

    Heh, not even alcohol then?

    Now thats a harmful drug......

    :eek2:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by freethepeeps
    Heh, not even alcohol then?

    Now thats a harmful drug......

    :eek2:
    True, but it isn't currently illegal. I feel like a stuck record when I say that there is a difference between banning something and legalising something.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    That's fair.

    But which part of that did you disagree with?

    The point is that psychiatric nurses will often put cannabis down as a reason for psychosis if the patient mentions that they might have a smoke occasionally, even if it's not much of a factor. It's easier to blame cannabis than to look at deeper emotional and psychodynamic reasons for mental ill health which take time and money to delve in to.

    That said that though, it is a factor for some people.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    But it's not the case that the drugs market is being pushed undergound - it already is underground.

    Not round here it ain't. It's blatant.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    But the fact remains that drugs are harmful for some.

    Yes. So is rock climbing, driving a car, eating too many cream cakes.

    So what?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    True, but it isn't currently illegal. I feel like a stuck record when I say that there is a difference between banning something and legalising something.

    So you don't think cannabis should have been banned in the first place?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    The point is that psychiatric nurses will often put cannabis down as a reason for psychosis if the patient mentions that they might have a smoke occasionally, even if it's not much of a factor. It's easier to blame cannabis than to look at deeper emotional and psychodynamic reasons for mental ill health which take time and money to delve in to.

    That said that though, it is a factor for some people.
    Perhaps, or maybe you've written off the professionalism of most mental health professionals.
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