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religion...
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
is just a massive contest to see who's got the best imaginary friend.
discuss.
discuss.
0
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Shouldn't this be in politics and debate?
ETA: can i move it myself, or do the mods have to do it?
Sprituality is inherent to being human!!!!
Ummm....I think the mods have to do it. Ah well never mind, they can get off their behinds and do some work now
Offers comfort to the hard realities of life and the unanswerable questions that consume us.
In short, it's an easy way out.
In any case religion should not have an influence on people's lives anyway. To steal the script from a recent thread on another board, even if there was a God could anyone actually justify the need of worshipping Him/Her?
Isn't God by definition a perfect (thus altruist) being? What kind of god demands that you must idolise and worship him or face eternal hell and suffering, even if you are a good person?
Non-believers and believers are never going to convince each other but as far as I'm concerned, it's all bollocks. People should simply be good to others, not because of fear of divine retribution but because it's the right thing to do. Believe me, if there really was a God and They were a perfect being, They really wouldn't give a shit whether you shag men or women, eat meat on Fridays or enjoy a bacon sandwich or even spend a few hours every week announcing how great and clever God is.
I wouldn't have a problem with religion if god-botherers kept themselves to themselves. But that has never been the case in history (in fact only very recently have people stopped killing each other for alleged 'heresy' crimes, and this is only true of some countries) and to this day god-botherers still have a massive influence on every day life from abortion rights to homosexual tolerance to general bigotry.
Considering that religious values are not necessarily linked to a sense of ‘right’ and ‘wrong’, I see religion as having caused infinitely more harm than good to mankind.
Atheist-botherers can keep themselves to themselves as well then.
Honestly, your view of religion is hopelessly predjudiced and over-simplified.
Try reading about the good that religion has done, as opposed to reading only about the harm it can do.
Religion and spirituality are 2 different things.
Pardon?
Like?
How so??
We don't go about demanding religious types that they must have euthanasia if they suffer from a terminal disease, or do anything in our power to ensure the law change or does not change with that regard.
Unlike the god-botherers, who do exactly all that (demanding that people do not have euthanasia and opposing every move to change the law) and never cease to interfere with people's lives, even if they don't subscribe to their ludicrous superstitions.
Ditto abortion laws.
Ditto genetic research.
Ditto homosexual marriage and general acceptance of homosexuality.
And in countries less tolerant than ours (such as your beloved US of A), ditto cohabitation, pre-marital sex, oral sex, anal sex, sex toys and a million other things that the god-botherers feel they must stop everyone from doing because "it's the will of God".
God-botherers would do very well to keep themselves for themselves and stop interfering with other people's lives once and for all. We have been extremely tolerant of them- considering they have been busy oppressing, torturing and killing those who did not conform to their views throughout history. It's high time they stopped trying to run the world and other people's lives. Otherwise people's patience will eventually run out.
On the contrary, I think he understands precisely how powerful it can be. That's why organised religion is so troubling because that power is abused to justify certain actions.
One is about power and social control the other is about your personal relationship with yourself and the universe.
As you would me.
You don't hear him comdemning personal spirituality. All the while people keep those beliefs personal then fine. The problem with religion is the attempt to impose such will on people.
It's very simple: if believe homsexuality, cohabitation or euthanasia (to name but 3 things) are wrong, that's fine. Say so in church meetings or in mass. But do not try to stop everyone else from doing it.
Agreed?
I'm sorry but I really have to agree with Luke here. Religion gets things wrong, history says that it's a fact. But for some reason. Many (and I'm going to use the christian example here because it's the one I know most about) non-christians expect christians to be these perfect creatures. Totally without sin or malice able to truely move mountains upon their faith, and then they get strips torn off them when they fall down from their mighty purpose on Earth.
Christians have been responsible for numerous wars in history which frankly Christ would only be ashamed of (Check Matt 7:23). Christians are responsible for a lot of good that gets overlooked. People seem to want to place blame on Christianity because really they are only human and it shows. Christians are responsible for the first care for those suffering from leperosy when no-one else would go anywhere near them. They started the first charities to help homeless and destitute, they go into the dark corners of the world to bring comfort to those no-one gives a shit about. A christian Nurse during the last century (sorry I've lent the book to a friend so I have no specific details) was so horrified by the way terminal patients were treated she retrained as a doctor and set up the first hospices for cancer patients. Great christians include Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King jr., Dr. C. Everett Koop, MD, former Surgeon General of the United States, and so on and so forth.
In my experiance non-christians are afraid of what it is that christians have. Why it is that they care so much. There are people out there who call themselves christians but those people are the ones who will get Matt 7:23 applied to them. Read about the man behind the faith, you'll see that christians have an awful lot to live up to. It can't be done 100% of the time.
But did he say that it should be illegal?
There is a difference between his expression an opinion and his expecting you to follow his belief pattern.
Christ never wanted power, or control of you, He wanted to help you, on the basis you accept He exists then that's what the bible says. Christ himself also never condemned anyone for anything they did, He went about dispensing forgivness. Never mentioned in the gospels, euthansia, homosexuality, abortion. The two women in the gospels who were adulterous (Mary Magdalene) or had multiple partners (samaritan woman in I think John 4) were forgiven by Christ but told not to do it again. The major point is though, if they had, He would have forgiven them again, and over and over, there was no end to His compassion for others. Please don't confuse the message with the church. Unfortunatly they are different things sometimes.
You do have a bit of an obsession with the word muslim do you not?
Anyway, religion does have an awful lots of rights. The right to interfere with other people's lives shouldn't be one of them, should it?
I do not have a problem with people believing what they want to believe, so far as they keep it to themselves (or at least that they don't try to "better me" regardless of whether I want to or not).
There is the freedom of speech for a start. Secondly and perhaps more important. In christianity at least there is a command to go out and tell people about christ and the things He taught. For a christian a command in the bible is more important than anything else.
Again, much to my dismay (:p ) I have to agree with Luke. It always seems that you can rip the piss out of Christians torment them for their faith as much you like. Do it to a Jew or a Mulism or Sikh or whatever and suddenly it's totally unacceptable. Christians fair game, just stay away from the other religions. Ridiculous.
yes, I just made it better than you, but who are you and what have you done with Luke you're talking sense this morning
My flawless arguements seemed to have scared everyone away
No really.. (I wish)
Sorry, suggesting that you would go to hell is not the same thing as suggesting that such action to be illegal in law.
Sorry, but that just plain bollocks.
I think that Aladdin's comment about adding mosque or sinagogue would show you that.
But if it doesn't perhaps you would like to highlight when anyone here has suggested that it is not okay to condemn muslims/jews or any other relgion for imposing their beliefs. Remember that there are many reference in this thread to "religion" not just "christianity". The examples used about christianity are there because, in this country, it is the major religion and therefore has the greater number of examples.
If you can show me one where any other relgion has tried to use pressure to change or create a law in the UK, based on beliefs, then I would be interested
It's not bollocks, it's something that happens. Simply the fact that he added it in instead of being more vague in reference says that people target Christians more. I know it's not bollocks because I have seen it not to be bollocks. It is fact in my life in my observations and those of my friends and family that it is not bollocks.
I don't know if you were, but I hope you weren't suggesting me comments were targetting Christians only...
It's the trend these days. I'm so glad you've got room to hate some many people equally.
Saying 'church' and 'mass' are christian oriented, specifically catholic. Be more careful with your points in future.
As I said before- they should keep themselves to themselves.