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Positive discrimination? An emphasis on being overly-politically correct?
I'm not racist... I don't give a shit what somebody's ethnic background is, but it pisses me off that I have to be so careful with what I say and do in case I do something that isn't 'PC'... anyone else relate?
An example of this?
I work behind a bar and we get a lot of gypsies (the Irish travellers, or 'Tinkers') in and we have to watch them like a hawk. Their manners are disgusting, they swear, they ask the staff for sex, they harass other customers. Most of the staff where I work can't stand 'em and because of the few twats who come in to our bar, they've put a lot of people off others that share their cultural identity. Once we refused to serve a guy because he was too pissed... and he had a go saying we weren't serving him because he's a Tinker.
Now some bars in my area won't even let them in.
The people from the same camp go in to the hospital and run in the showers and steal things. They don't pay taxes, a lot of them cause trouble in town (I had trouble in the summer with one who threatened to beat me up several times because she didn't like me for some reason)... yet if you call them a 'gyppo', or say you don't like them you're racist.
Another example. A friend of mine grew up somewhere near Birmingham in a school where him and a friend were the only white kids in their class. Now they got 'racial' harassment which, by the standards of the government and of some people is void because it was Asians on whites and not the other way round. is that politically correct?
One day he had enough, sick of being called a 'milk bottle bastard' and 'chalky' and fought back, calling the kids names back and ended up in a fight. Of course, he got suspended for being racist :rolleyes:
I'd say that racism and prejudice comes from both sides. There have been both positive and negative effects of multiculturalism, but society has become so politically correct sometimes it even discriminates against white people, in my opinion of course.
If you call someone a 'gyppo' you are a racist. I've worked in bars and have had badly behaved people and never felt the need to call them a racist name, are you trying to tell me you can think of nothing better to say to them without using that term?
Your friend was being bullied and thats unacceptable but the government does not have any legislation that says racism against White people does not exist, sounds like your assumption. Why didn't he/she inform his parents if he thought the teachers weren't doing anything about it?
They tried, got no help. Maybe it was just a bad school or something, but it lead my friend to have a dislike for Asians.
We don't call them racist names (well, I don't) as it'd cause more trouble than it's worth & would lower ourselves to their pissed level. But I don't see why people have a problem with calling somebody a 'gyppo'... and yet some people think it's Ok to call somebody 'ugly' or 'fat'... I mean why can't we respect each other?
Gyppo is a racist term, same as someone calling you a Taff or a Sheepshagger.
Calling someone fat or ugly, brings you down to childish levels but thats the downside of human nature and letting things get to you unfortunately.
How have these got anything to do with living in a multicultural society per se?
As Black Arab says, +ve discrimination is very rarely put into practice, but I do think that the ethinic makeup of public organisations should reflect the ethnic makeup of the communties they serve.
And yes, gyppo is an offensive term.
As for the thing in Brum - sounds well dubious to me. No one ime ever denies that racism can be a 2 way street.
Anyway, the examples you give are isolated examples.
Offence is subjective. Why should you 'offence' at someone burning a flag be paramount over someone venting their feelings?
Isn't this a free society??? Heck, what happened to freedom of expression??
Woolly thinking methinks Major Tom.
They are completely different situations. The police are an organisation that is supposed to protect members of the public, and as such have a duty not to be racist. Also, as they are a national organisation, there are certain features in common about how they conduct themselves.
Muggers (black, white or purple) are merely out for themselves and are not a national organisation with its own rules, codes and culture (formal and informal). To conclude that all black men are muggers due to being mugged a few times by black men is therefore very wooly thinking.
And why should someone's offence be paramount over someone else using the word nigger?
Works both ways, y'see. Either everyone is respected, or no-one is respected. Can't have both.
The idea behind "multiculturalism" is quite sound, but don't think it ever has worked. Not truly. In some happy-clappy world it sounds great to love everyone's differences, but unfortunately it HAS become that some differences are more respected than others. Certainly in Bradford and the North-West it has, anyway.
Indeed, but all people do it to a lesser or greater extent. A lot of older people don't like teenagers, a lot of middle-class people don't like council estaters; you don't like "bosses" because a few earn too much money.
C'est la vie.
But what about disabilities, or overweight people. What about those who wear spectacles, obese people, people from backgrounds with a low income. They can't help their situation can they?
How many people here have been bullied in the past? Yet it doesn't seem as much of a taboo to call somebody names because they're fat. From personal experience I was both physically and verbally bullied because I have an invisible disability (though I hate the term 'disability... but that's what it is) that affects my co-ordination. I also had a spinal curve... yet the teachers did fuck all to help me when people were beating me down. But then there's not really a taboo on that kind of abuse is there. :rolleyes:
I remember a girl getting bullied in school because she had leukemia and lost her hair through treatment.
And hey, how come fat people are often seen as stupid in American comedies (as well as some British), or greedy... how come 'nerds' are made fun of? How come it's Ok to portray working class people as criminals or slobs and make jokes about sexuality?
If the same gags were directed at a black person or a Pakistani woman, if Marylin Manson made an album called 'Anti Allah Superstar' then there would be an outcry, an uproar. We'd all point our fingers and shout 'racist!'
So perhaps what society needs is not selective compassion, or an over-emphasis on how we should treat people from other ethnic backgrounds differently... but a sense of community and empathy and to celebrate differences, promote understanding. Because even if it is wrong to poke fun at a Chinese person, it still seems less of a taboo to make fun of somebody with say... a speech impediment.
As I said earlier in this thread (or another one, I forget), its the role of bosses I don't like. I can divorce that role from individuals.
But flag burning is an example of freedom of expression.
Even trivial examples of speaking freely could offend. If offence is the only harm caused by burning a flag then I see nothing reprehensible at all about flag burning.
I think everyone posting in this thread needs to remember the difference between race, religion and nationality if this debate can go any further. I'm reluctant to allow another thread to continue that will simply descend into a slanging match.
An expression of hate maybe.
What would happen if I went to London and set fire to the star of david, or the crescent of Islam?
I'd end up in the cells for the night for inciting racial hatred, when in fact I am voicing my displeasure with the Islamic institute.:rolleyes:
If someone burns OUR flag then they deserve to pay for it. Other countries don't stand for it, so why should we?
I thought Abu Hamza was in Finsbury Park. Thats not east London.
Yes. Because you seem to be very ignorant. Has Abu Hamza burned the flag? I don't know. Do you?
If you can find where I've expressed support for him, you can have my next months pay. By the way, what does "he should be shooted" mean? Do you mean "he should be shot"?
Learn to write English then. I know immigrants who can write English better than you.
Now reread and answer my post with the slight change in syntax.
What post?
Who was that directed to?
Correct.
Well by definition is it, whether it is an expression of hate or not.
Sorry but in a free society people have a right to voice their views. I don't find flag burning offensive at all.