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Disturbing report on CAMHS

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Fanatical Poster
Apologies for not seeing this until tonight, but according to the BBC News website on 24 September 2018, CAMHS is 'not fit for purpose'.

"Children with mental health problems are not receiving treatment until they are in crisis and sometimes suicidal, doctors have told the BBC.

A letter leaked to Panorama reveals at least one area's child and adolescent mental health service (Camhs) to be rationing care.

Leading psychiatrist Jon Goldin described the service as "not fit for purpose".

The government said it was investing an extra £1.4bn in child mental health."


Trigger Warning: Beware, halfway down the report is a disturbing 12 second short video.



I'm driven by self doubt.

Comments

  • LaineLaine Horse hugger Posts: 849 Incredible Poster
    This comes as no surprise to me. 

    I've never experienced CAMHS before personally as I was apparently not bad enough for it (I presume as I was/am just anxious and not a danger to myself or others)  but I have heard really bad things about it. 

    It's really rubbish we deserve better everyone does x

    🌈Positive thoughts🌈 


    "So wake me up when it's all over, when I'm wiser and I'm older" ~ Avicii

    "
    All I do is sit and think about you If I choose then I lose.
    Distract my brain from the terrible news
    It's not living if it's not with you" ~ The 1975

    "What's gonna be left of the world if you're not in it?" ~ Bastille
  • ShaunieShaunie England 🏠Posts: 2,531 Mega Poster
    Sadly this is something i think nearly everyone is aware of. Of the under funded NHS esp in mental health. Something definetly needs to change
    There is some comfort in what we know. Even if that is deep in depression. I think i now more understand the quote of -life starts outside of your comfort zone. 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Fanatical Poster
    Just to confirm our suspicions, @Shaunie ; and @Laine ; Child mental health referrals are up 26% in five years, according to a report by Oliver Newlan for BBC 5 Live  :/


    I'm suspicious that the government said it was investing an extra £1.4bn in child mental health - since when?

    Just realised that maybe I should have posted this in Debate. Apologies @The Mix


    I'm driven by self doubt.
  • AidanAidan Clever idiot Posts: 847 Incredible Poster
    edited October 10
    Floxy said:
    Child mental health referrals are up 26% in five years, according to a report
    With that statistic alone, no one can tell whether it's because more children develop a mental illness, or because a mentally ill child is now more likely to be referred for help than five years ago.

    I say 'child', CAMHS deals with people up to and even a bit over 18, it's not as specialised as it could be.
    £1.4bn
    That's smaller than it looks, the MoD bought 2 aircraft carriers for over 4x that figure. Here's hoping a quarter of a boat can save CAMHS.

    Thanks for sharing this
    Aidan (:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Fanatical Poster
    Thank you, too, @Aiden

    As for the government's '£1.4bn, it wouldn't surprise me if the amount is going to be spread over the next few years. That would be typical! :/
    I'm driven by self doubt.
  • AidanAidan Clever idiot Posts: 847 Incredible Poster
    It's fair to say that throwing money at a problem alone doesn't solve it, but it's a good way to make you look like you're helping! 

    One such problem is that the need for child psychiatrists and counsellors is rising, but the inflow of people joining the profession isn't meeting the need. To those seeking help, the organisation feels and works like a stop-gap measure- with people and resources being moved constantly making the process of helping someone timely and inefficient (or deadly)- it cannot sustain itself permanently.

    I'm not an expert, but I've been spewed through the CAMHS and I know that it needs more experts.

    Rant over :joy:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Fanatical Poster
    Ehh, the Conservatives want to be seen to be doing the right thing. There again, I wouldn't like to be the Chancellor of The Exchequer. Whoever is in power, it's a thankless job.

    I agree with you that there aren't enough psychiatrists, but someone who is gifted at teaching and who has an MA or a Doctorate in Psychology, could be teaching them. Except those in the profession need to weigh the time and money involved (the lifestyle cost); and then look carefully at the current and projected need for therapists and/or psychology instructors; and go from there.

    There again, if a psychologist has no plans to earn a doctorate, then earning a Master's degree might still be of value in terms of teaching at the undergrad level and that could go a long way towards bringing child psychologists to join the profession to fill that need.

    Last year I had dealings with CAMHS. After 20 minutes into the session the therapist had scribbled 'babbling on living in a dream she cannot ppossibly live, total waste of time. think i need a holiday'.

    Before walking out, I read it back to the bitch. I always had a gift of reading upside down. :joy:



    I'm driven by self doubt.
  • Pabs11Pabs11 Posts: 17 Fast Newbie
    I have had camhs for over 2 years and never once experienced anything bad from it, I would say it might depend on where your based at, but my experiences were of the best kind and they're the reason I am alot better than what I used to be. I don't know what spectrum you need to be at to recieve support from them but if it wasn't for CAMHS then i would be a whole lot worse and probably not alive. 

    [Deleted User]
  • MikeMike Posts: 1,204 Moderator
    edited October 11
    No worries @Floxy, just moved this to P&D. :) Also giving myself notifications for this thread as it's really interesting hearing what you all think - definitely a discussion worth having.
    'Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?'

    < 3

    ---
    On holiday until the 14th!
  • AidanAidan Clever idiot Posts: 847 Incredible Poster
    edited October 11
    What ideas do people think might help CAMHS, or mental health services in general?

    My opinion for improvements for CAMHS (skewed because of my own experiences, as is everyone's):
    •Reorganise into a seperate child MHS and adolescent MHS, with a transitional period for patients between both- would ensure the differing needs of children and adolescents are met more consistently
    •Do self-help books and other resources on prescription- so patients can help themselves without having to worry about money (some kids' prescriptions are free?)
    •A wealth of free resources for parents, accessable online or in a physical format- because a parent can monitor and aid a child more than a counselor/psychiatrist can
    •School drop-ins and screenings (especially in nursery, and early secondary school in particular), compulsory and where parents cannot opt their child out (because a few would and it is unhelpful, like skipping on vaccines)- warning signs can be spotted earlier in all children and adolescents, and intervention can occur before any mental illness develop further

    What do you guys think of my ideas and what would you add?

    Interesting fact: mental illness costs the country more money (through lost work days alone) than is spent on mental health services- so increased spending on services could make a profit or reduce losses (maybe this will entice the politicians?)
  • AidanAidan Clever idiot Posts: 847 Incredible Poster
    edited October 11
    Interesting fact: mental illness costs the country more money (through lost work days alone) than is spent on mental health services- so increased spending on services could make a profit or reduce losses (maybe this will entice the politicians?)
    "Analysts reckon that this sickness absence costs £8.4 billion each year, plus another £15.1 billion in reduced productivity. A further £2.4 billion is lost replacing staff who leave work because of mental ill-health. Overall, recent estimates put the cost to UK employers at £30 billion each year."

    Source: http://m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3915

    Of course kids don't usually work, but most mh problems manifest in childhood and teenage years, and they will grow up to work.

    Thanks guys (:
    Aidan
  • AzzimanAzziman Posts: 289 Rampant Poster
    Thought I'd throw in my two cents :)

    Firstly, the £1.4bn of funding is spread over 5 years. Although, it's concerning to know that the government is relying on some 2004 reports as part of their approach to mental health policy - there's definitely more recent reports and research on it! How this plays out per person is unknown though, because stats for mental health doesn't go back many years in the UK. It's said that funding has gone up 4% so far, but if I had to guess, I'd reckon that demand for mental health services has probably increased faster than that.

    There's a debate on at the moment - although ideally we'd like to have stellar mental health services available to every one, we probably have to prioritise - which one do we put first? Is it better to roll out basic MH services to everyone in the UK, or improve the existing network of MH services we have?

    Regarding employment, we're in a very strange place right now. There are several vacancies as people are leaving the psychology industry, but then those who do want to enter find that they are underqualified, and that there is little support once you're in! And of course, once the industry builds a reputation for being an awful place to work, potential applicants are warded off as well. 

    There's a lot of questions out there, and not many answers.

    [Deleted User]
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Fanatical Poster
    Azziman said:
    Thought I'd throw in my two cents :)

    Firstly, the £1.4bn of funding is spread over 5 years. Although, it's concerning to know that the government is relying on some 2004 reports as part of their approach to mental health policy - there's definitely more recent reports and research on it! How this plays out per person is unknown though, because stats for mental health doesn't go back many years in the UK. It's said that funding has gone up 4% so far, but if I had to guess, I'd reckon that demand for mental health services has probably increased faster than that.

    There's a debate on at the moment - although ideally we'd like to have stellar mental health services available to every one, we probably have to prioritise - which one do we put first? Is it better to roll out basic MH services to everyone in the UK, or improve the existing network of MH services we have?

    Regarding employment, we're in a very strange place right now. There are several vacancies as people are leaving the psychology industry, but then those who do want to enter find that they are underqualified, and that there is little support once you're in! And of course, once the industry builds a reputation for being an awful place to work, potential applicants are warded off as well. 

    There's a lot of questions out there, and not many answers.

    The psychology industry demands people with psychology degrees, so all the more reason for those who already have a degree to use it to better their employment position. If they could get further sponsorship to do a Masters, say, in Clinical Psychology, then the road is open for them to earn more and receive better job satisfaction, or enter the teaching profession.

    I already found out the British government was spreading their fundering over 5 years. But they haven't broadcasted it though. "seen to be doing the right thing" is their logo.

    I wonder what it's going to be like after Brexit? Likely go abroad and find better employment would be a poss. Australia has been advertising for some time for people with degrees.
    I'm driven by self doubt.
  • Millie2787Millie2787 WorcestershirePosts: 368 Rampant Poster
    For someone’s who’s seen a family member and is going through CAMHS herself it’s a very needed service that is so underfunded - for me I’ve been waiting close to 6 months for individual support but I know that hopefully it shouldn’t be long 
    it’s so sad to see waiting times so long becasye it’s such a vital services but there just simply isn’t the funds put into it 
    “Healing Comes from letting there be room for all of “This” to happen ; Room for grief , Room for relief, Room for Misery and Room for joy “
  • ShaunieShaunie England 🏠Posts: 2,531 Mega Poster
    edited October 14
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-45748562
    Was just reading this. He had regular intrusive suicidal thoughts and got told he would wait 40 weeks so he went private and they ending up getting in contact with him two years later. 

    Which was like 6 years ago is obviously really bad and only getting worse. And if only getting worse like when will it get better. But suprising reading because when i was bit younger i tried to kill myself for the first time, (i had no help before and it looked like came from no where) but then i started seeing CAMHS literally from the day after that, for every week, but had no treatment cause was going onto age of adult services in less than a year so maybe why. I don’t know. But either way i was really grateful for that as was even aware of the underfunded. But anyway i just wanted to share that as i think look so much on negative experiences with CAMHS.

    Floxy said:
    "Children with mental health problems are not receiving treatment until they are in crisis and sometimes suicidal, doctors have told the BBC.”



    But is onyl when people act on their feelings they get help, cause seems like even if theyre in crisis and suicidal thoughts still not getting help which is really sad. 
    There is some comfort in what we know. Even if that is deep in depression. I think i now more understand the quote of -life starts outside of your comfort zone. 
    [Deleted User]
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Fanatical Poster
    I agree with  you, @Shaunie - it shouldn't have to be like that. :/
    I'm driven by self doubt.
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