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Homosexuals in the Military
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Now that we have a few more ex-servicemen on thesite - and as it is still an issue on both sides of the Atlantic - I just wondered what everyone's thought were on this subject.
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Anybody or anything that could possibly produce serious divisions in a unit is a very dangerous thing and shouldnt be tolerated just in the name of political correctness.
Right or wrong, most people have a strong attitude toward gay guys. There will always be that feeling of mistrust lurking there and theres just no place for it in an organisation charged with protecting our country.
As for gays most that to join under false pretenses, eventually get out before there contract is up, because of one reason or another. Basicly they just can't handle the life style of the military. You can't take a shower with I guy your afraid to 'drop the soap' infront of. When you get in the sh!t how do you know that he will come and help instead of looking at your tight ass. I don't like gays, they are un natural, it's not something they were born with. It's there own choice to live a depraved lifestyle.
holdup thanatos, that is just blatantly prejudicial and homophobic. saying that homosexuals live a 'depraved lifestyle' is truly ignorant, and downright offensive. what reason do you have to distrust gays, any more than to distrust women (ie, that they could be seuxally attracted to you - thats just egotism). are you saying that a gay person has less of a right to fight for what they believe in, just because of their sexuality? sorry, but that's just ludicrous.
and the same thing about women - would you deny women the right to fight for and defend their country, their children, their liberties? are their lives worth less than mens, just because they have biological differences? or is that men are the only true patriots? next you'll be saying that there should be no women or homosexuals in the police, fire brigade, criminal justice system, etc, because of the same reason. get real.
a recent human rights case in the EU decided that it was wrong for the British government to exclulde homosexuals from the military, and that it amounted to prejudice against them. i know (before you say it) that the culture is different in the US, but as so-called 'champions of freedom', shouldnt the US set a good example too?
you are entitled to your opinion, but dont approach it in such a sexualist manner. (is that a word? if not, somebody tell me what the word is for someone insults people on account of their sexuality.)
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Wasn't this the very argument levelled against enlisting blacks too?
That's a fairly sweeping statement. Can you explain why?
And no heterosexuals leave early?
Quite an egotistical comment.
Do all homesexuals think you are hot stuff then? Would you object to being in that shower with a woman, or would you be worried that she might fancy you too?
Would you be worried that she might not be worried about helping you out in a combat situation too, or do you think that she would be more interested in looking at your ass than saving it of even her own life?
This is more the point you are trying to make. You are a bigot, pure and simple.
You have no basis for any of your arguments other than you own narrow mind. Shame.
Maybe its a glaring hole in my historical knowledge but when were blacks barred from entry into the British army? We have been using non-whites in our forces for hundreds of years.
I rather think that the complete opposite is the case...Womens lives are worth MUCH more than mens, being that they propogate they are the ones that keep the species going.
Just to clarify here..I have no problem whatsoever with gays..SO long as they dont force their lifestyle upon me, they can do whatever they want.
The simple fact is this...Gays cause division in the armed forces..Thats fact, we dont live in a perfect world, there is bigotry and people dont live in perfect harmony...Until peoples attitudes change then gays have no place in the military....I for one am not willing to sacrifice our armed forces just so the govt can be seen to be politically correct..
Dan, I dont know if sexualist is a word but it makes sense anyway <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif"> It just so happens that women cant take life in the military...Unless the training and exercises are 'feminized' then they drop out and fail. Its well documented by our own forces. They also drop out due to medical reasons at a much increased percentage than their male counterparts..Womens bodys just aint made for all that physical punishment..no amount of words will change that simple fact.
Now how does your argument sound?
NB. There WAS a movement against blacks in the army. It's also worth asking yourself how many blacks are in the Guards to this day?
Is this a new form of reproduction? I was always under the impression that men came into the equation too <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif">
Oh dear, what a very sad way to be in this day and age...u r allowed to have your oppinion and stuff but it just makes me laugh that people think this way.
Do u really think they would rather look at your arse than help u just coz they r gay? And who says whats natural or un natural in life?
Personally I think gay people have as much right to be in the military as straight people...and women too. U r not a weaker person, or unable to work as good, or anything else just because u r gay or female!
lmfao, thats exactly what I was gonna say!
Hmm im not sure how things are in Kent but here in Hertfordshire in 2001, theres not much problem with blacks..Integration has pretty much happened...You cant deny that in todays Britain, being gay is looked down upon more than being black..Maybe I live a sheltered life but thats what ive seen from my area, tv, radio, papers etc.
N.B, can you provide a source for the anti-black movement in the Brit forces? Id be interested to read up on that.
Show me the man who has a womb and gives birth and ill take your point. Women bear and nurture the children historically.
Lolly, Im afraid to tell you that women are, in fact, weaker than men. Therefore they are unable to compete well with men in a physical situation.
Show me the woman who can produce her own sperm...and I'll take YOUR point.
You argued that women should not be in the military because they are the basis of reproduction of our species.
Yet without men this process cannot take place either, so the argument is nullified.
I think that you missed my point. Just becuase this section of society faces unfair discrimination doesn't mean that they should be disbarred from serving their country.
The very argument you put forward to support your bigotted attitude is just as offensive and irrelevant when referred to homosexuals as it would be to any minority.
I suggested that you substitue the word 'black' for 'gay' just to prove how moronic an argument it is.
Please show me a regiment from WWII in which both blacks and whites fought alongside each other. In which both were treated equally.
I repeat myself, in 2001, how many blacks are in the Guards Regiments? I bet you could count them on one hand.
Perhaps the Special Forces Unit could infiltrate the enemy HQ and redecorate it.
Man of Kent - Man will be replaced only when vibrators can change the oil and mow the lawn!
[This message has been edited by Sportster 1200C (edited 14-08-2001).]
Ask some of the veterans what would happen if a female was out on a patrol for 14 days without a shower, and on the rag. Do you get my point. The wild dogs that roam the wilderness follow your patrol trying to find whatever the f*ck it is that is heat!!!
And gays, well I'm not saying that they can't survive. But not in the military. I will not stand for someone that could possably go crazy cause he is a princess at heart. I don't care that you think I'm a bigot. It doesn't bother me, I am in the military, I am not supposed to be PC. My job is to destroy the enemys of the US, that is it. Whatever else there is, that is just a side note. I am not brainwashed, far be it. But one thing that I hope you never have to learn is that war is no place for PC. Right now we are all punished for drinking below 21 (federal regulation), if we are violent we will be punished, same for any other crime.
Guess What, when the next war breaks out, we will be fighting to the bloody end. I will shoot him before he shoots me. When in the back, we will all be bare chested, barbeque and large bloody steaks will be are diet, keg after keg, and we will all be looking at our nudie mags if the CO wasn't kind enough to get strippers.
If you have a problem with that, no one cares. This is the way that war and the military is supposed to work. Women have no place in a fighting force and neither do the weak. It is not for boys or fags, just men. That is the end of the discusion. Period.
Ill take back the argument though seeing as it did originally take men to store the sperm.
My bigoted argument? Oh im a bigot now, for pointing out the attitudes of Britain today...interesting tactics there..I dont think theres one minority group I am intolerant towards, except maybe the French that visit my town.
Im sorry but I think it should..This is the defence of the country here folks. The world isnt a nice place..Im against ANYTHING that reduces the effectiveness of our armed forces, for any reason.
Sorry but you didnt say regimental discrimination. You said there was a movement to totally exclude blacks from the armed forces.
As for the Guards Regiments...I know theres very few non-whites because of the press attention that surrounded the recent asian guy on his horsie....But I ask you, just how many non-whites apply???Ill wager thats also a very low number and the numbers that get through reflect the population percentage.
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
Yes, this is a bogit's argument. You say that a homosexual should not serve his country in the forces because he is gay. No other reason.
You are right the attitdes you refer to do exist within this country, and you just perpetuate them.
I honestly do believe that you are generally a tolerant person, but not in this case
Another beautiful argument. Have you ever heard of 'shellshock'- being in the miltary, you obviously will have - do you think that only homosexuals suffer? What about 'post traumatic stress', only affect gays?
To suggest that homosexuals are weak minded is just moronic. There is no more a basis for that than for saying that they all eat green beans on a monday.
Guess what, gays fought in WW2. Do you know how many? Neither do I because nobody counted and nobody cared.
Would it matter if the person who saved your life was a raving queen or 'big butch bill from Straightsville, USA'?
I don't have a problem with you looking at girle mags, drinking beer or being bare chested - as you say that is something that men do (me included). What I object to is your assumption that a persons sexuality is more important to the armed forces than their fighting ability.
Women do make better fighter pilots than men, if not better marines. Their shorter bodies are better built to withstanding high G's.
Anyone read 'Starship Troopers' by Heinlein?
I'm not saying that all straight males are suitable for military service. Far from it, but queers are just one more stress that can and will divide a unit that needs to be closer than a normal blood family. If a homosexual is able to hide his preverse tendancies and no one finds out, it isn't a problem cause no one knows. That was the reason for 'don't ask, don't tell' replacing the militaries long standing queer witch hunt policy. The issue is that the Homosexuals want to be openly gay. This goes against the basic design of the military. The Marines, Soldiers, Saliors and Airmen are supposed to be Alpha Male, testosterone oozing, pussy chasing, Men. Without question they are to go into certain death missions, knowing very well that they will come back because they are the elite invincible Heros of our nations. This is far from PC, this is reality. There is no place for flaming queers that are trying to get in. If one of are alpha males is a fruit and he slips up and it gets out he will be beat. Pure and simple. That is why they don't belong, protection of their lives from almost certain doom
I will not argue that the physical G-Forces that women can take are a edge above their male counter parts. But there is also the combat element that in the feminist backlash it finally coming to light long term research which shows that testosterone plays a major part in combat effectiveness.
The better Marine, fuck no! there is no way in hell you can come up with any shred of evidance that they are in anyway even on a close plane let alone better. Their hips can't handle the strain of the rigiers of being a Marine. Plus they are easy to track in the field. All you need is one female on the rag and every wild dog within 20 miles will be fallowing the unit around. There are no showers in the field. If you thought ahead you use baby wipes to get a little sanitary. How good does your girlfriend smell after a weekend of backpacking? Now multiply it by 5, but we are out in the field for up to a month at a time without a shower. Think about that wonderful smell. The enemy recon teams will be made up of bloodhounds and two dog watchers.
Your opinions on gays and women are based on books. My opinions are based on the reality I see everyday
I quite simply can not believe these comments. It makes me feel sick that other human beings feel this way.
I'm a gay man and, while i wouldn't want a career in the military, i don't see why others shouldn't be allowed.
To suggest that i am a freak of nature, that i need to be cured, have been abused by my mother or negelcted by my father are surreal. You don't know me and i doubt you know any other gay males well enough, if at all, to go around making these wild accusations.
To suggest that a gay man would 'go crazy' cos he's 'a princess at heart' is highly offensive, as i'm sure you already know. I don't consider my self a princess, nor am i limp wristed, camp or any other gay sterotype.
I'm leaving it there cos i can't even be asred wasting any more of my time and effort replying to your bigoted opinions.
Everything about you is how i want to be.
[This message has been edited by jeffrey (edited 14-08-2001).]
The reason for a fighting force is just that...fighting. You need a highly trained, motivated and team-oriented force to achieve your objectives. You must learn to live under a different set of rules (that do not apply to the civilian population). Basically, you give up most of your civil rights when you join the military.
If you have anything at all that adversely affects your military, you get rid of it...plain and simple. Whether anyone likes it or not, homosexuality affects the morale of a fighting force because people still do not accept it as "normal behaviour". It may not be PC, but we are not here to be PC.... we are here to defend our homelands.
I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it.
Well it wont ever be excepted as normal behaviour while gay people r shut out of things just because of their sexuality.
Maybe if they were accepted and had the same rights as straight people then we wouldnt have to listen to some of the pathetic shit from some people on this board...infact some of its worse than that, its sick.
Its ignorant, naive, pathetic little people that create all the problems in the first place and give humans a bad name.
Personally I think its pathetic that there r still people who refuse to understand that not everyone has the same tastes in life as they do. I mean for fuck sake how boring the world would be if we all liked the same things...and who the fuck desides whats normal and whats not when it comes to sexuality!? Please someone tell me where its written on a tablet of stone that we r not normal if we fancy the same sex lmfao!
I personally have no problem with someone because they are gay, I would just ask them to respect the fact that I'm not, and not to try to change my opinion that it is morally wrong and unnatural. I won't volunteer my opinion to them unless they ask.
Like I said before: I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it.
[This message has been edited by Sportster 1200C (edited 15-08-2001).]
Oh yes sorry I forgot...better beleive what the bible says, oooohhh must be right lmfao! If theres one thing I hate its that...people saying well the bible says it so thats how it should be lol.
I dont beleive in god or the bible and untill someone prooves the bible isnt just some extremely long book someone decided to write for no reason other than boredom then Ill think the same as I do now.
The bible also says that some geezer called moses parted the sea in order to walk through it....do u think thats possible too?
Then I suppose you would have no problem at all standing in an open field during a thunderstorm and screaming "I don't believe in God!" while holding a golf club in the air? My so called "Atheist" roommate wouldn't do it....the chickenshit.
One day you may come close to losing someone close to you or perhaps your own life (I hope that never happens to you).....see if your faith eludes you, then.
possibly because standing in an open field holding a golf club in a thunderstorm is a pretty silly thing to do? why even bother asking someone to do that, its silly and childish.
it makes me sick to think that you can actually believe that, let alone say it on an open board where they are gay people, calling them all the things you said. this is blatantly wrong, its not a PROBLEM that can be CURE to be gay. it is not a choice people make to followed a "perverted" or "depraved" lifestyle...it is just something that they ARE, as much as someone just IS black, or just happens to like tall dark handsome men.
to be gay is not a disorder. you need to start living in the 21st century where we dont hate people for something that they are.
Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.
Let us do our jobs, don't tell us what we should think...we've got enough on our minds, all ready.