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Er....yes it is. As a parent you make decisions every single day, based on what you believe is in the best interests of your child. Others may not agree with you (smacking, 'breast is best' etc) but it is your RIGHT.
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What I find really ironic is that the pro-life brigade are usually pro-death penalty too...isn't that just another way of taking another persons life, without their permission?
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You already have the right to die, its called suicide. No-one can take that away from you.
There are millions of people around at the moment and loads more throughout history who might have been seen as better off dead when they were born. Can you say for sure that every child that grows up without a good childhood would rather have died in the womb?
Except for nature. Take the woman with MS who was recently in the news. She cannot physically take her own life and seeing as how Euthanasia is illegal, she has to go on despite her desire for death.
if she had made the desicion to have an abortion, because, of the fact that it would be in the childs best interests, because they would have grown up poor, been resented by their abusive and alcoholic father, and not being able to hear, then she would have aborted Beethoven.
Im sure there are plenty of people who are physically or mentally handicapped, or abused, the product of rape/incest, and i doubt very much they would rather be dead than alive.
just a point i thought id raise <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
You are using the same argument as KrazedKT. And it's not really fair to do that because you are by-passing the question. Just because you know someone famous who was born into an abusive or neglectful home doesn't mean everyone born in those circumstances will fare so well.
oh well, im off for a donut mmmmmmm jam
Dunno, I don't know you do I? Do you think you'd be better off dead?
All I'm saying is that it is the woman's choice. I think that it is unfair to bring up a child into a world that does not love it. I think it is extremely unfair to give birth to a child that you know will have severe handicaps for the rest of it's life.
It is the woman's choice.
And Baldogg, euthanasia is still the same thing. Pro lifers disagree with it because the only person who should take life is God. At the end of the day said person's judgement is clouded over by whatever pain they are in. They have little choice anyway. They live in extremem pain, or they die. What kind of choice is that?
I don't know if it's just that I'm female, or the fact that I've been raped, but I think that a woman should have the right to abort a foetus, so long as it's pre-22 weeks.
Perhaps we don't know whether the foetus can feel pain, and different people have different perceptions of when it is that a foetus actually becomes a person. And yes, one does have to question the morality of it. But at the same time, a lot of the people who have abortions will have their lives seriously affected by having a child. Balddog, you say that very few women get pregnant whilst still using contraception, but look at the sex boards. They're filled with people who have absolutely no clue as to what's safe and what's not, yet they still are going out and having sex and potentially getting pregnant.
Perhaps I'm "playing God", trying to value who's life is more important. And yes, it is sad that some babies are struggling to live while foetuses are being aborted. I do see the life of a baby who's parents have been trying for ages to conceive more valuable to that of a conception that happened to an unwilling woman with someone she barely knew (as most women are raped by people they know)
With respect to Diesel's comment, I know many a woman who has had an abortion and isn't totally preoccupied with it. Those who are probably feel that their abortions somehow changed their lives, made them realise what their priorities should be, and are therefore more preoccupied with the changes and developments that ensued.
As for euthanasia... It's a good thought. I'd like to see strict laws if it ever were legalised, however. I think there has to be as near to a certainty as possible that this is what the patient really wants, and is really the best thing for them.
The fact is that abortion is legal in this country although there are restrictions. If it became illegal, dirty backstreet places and DIY abortions would just occur-does anyone want that?
I dont think the last thing would happen. What would actually happen will probably be what happened recently in catholic countries. The babies are abandoned.
I dont care much for God as im sure youre aware. He doesnt come into my arguments anywhere.
Its a choice they should be allowed to make. What do you think? They should be kept alive and in agony simply because their family is too fucking selfish to let them die.
Your argument is stupid. Just because you are choosing between two awful things doesnt make it any less of a choice.
After 8 weeks her friends told her to take a test because of what we later recognised as morning sickness. A month later the termination was carried out.
I'm not going to say that we took that decision entirely because we thought it was in the baby's best interests - it was in our own best interests. We're both young, we don't earn a lot of money - just enough for the two of us to get by - having a baby would ruin us financially as well as putting a huge strain on our relationship. This is not the environment I want to bring a child into, when I have kids I want them to have everything available to them and to bring them into a stable family. Is that selfish?
Women should always be allowed the right to choose, I don't believe the crap that a baby is alive as soon as sperm meets egg, obviously the dividing line between a foetus being part of the woman's body and being an individual human being is very blurred but I believe the present system is acceptable.
I dont see what experience has to do with anything...Ive never experienced violent, bloody murder either but I can comment on it as well as anyone else.
As I and others have said many times there are obvious medical exceptions as in your girlfriends case. In your case I dont have a problem, you both knew you didnt want a child and took extraordinary protection considering she was told she was infertile.
Its not situations like yours that im bothered about as has been explained several times on this thread.
I have read through ALL the comments made on the subject of abortion and would like to add my perspective.
NOW - I am not in favour of abortion on demand but I am obviously not Pro-life.
I think some of the things that have been posted here are rediculous. I.e. the person who said all the women he have met who have had abortions are the screwed up mess of humanity...NOT TRUE. this whole idea that women will always feel guilty or suicidal because of what they have done is rubbish. In fact in places like Ireland there's a whole industry fed by these people who try to MAKE women feel guilty by telling them they should.
Also I disagree that abortion is usually the result of irresponsibility!
What I do object to is this idea that Abortion can be used as a contraception. i.e those people who have sex without protection and just think 'oh well if the worst happens I can just go to hospital and have an abortion' .. that kind of attitude is an insult to women.
You answered it yourself...USUALLY IE, not all. Its scientific fact that contraception fails only 3%(top end of scale) of the time. The only other reason for getting pregnant when you didnt want to are either rape(tiny %) or Irresponsibility/laziness/ignorance.
It is an insult to women, youre right..That doesnt make it any less true.
Both you and Al seem to think that myself and others are branding all abortions as the same. Im not doing that at all. I have no problem with abortions for women in situations as you found yourself or how Al and his girlfriend found themselves.
Is it wrong or right?
it's a difficult one that will run on and on forever
just wanted to give my own perspective.
Im not religious though and I guess for some people religion is a big factor
Not everything is so black and white. Every situation is different.
Religion doesnt come into it for me. Im not even slightly religious.
What right has anybody got to tell someone else how to live their life?
If a woman wants to get rid of her unborn kid so what? If she wants to its her right.
Is there any difference in rights to life between an unborn baby of 8.5 months and a 1 day old baby?(I know its illegal to abort at 8.5 months, its just an example)
If you think that its a womans choice then what do you think of late term abortions. Like the above, 8 and a half months. Should a woman still be able to abort her pregnancy at 8.5 months? If you say no you had better have a good reason <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">
You seem to suggest that an abortion at 8 months is outrageous, whereas one at 3 months is acceptable. FYI babies can survive even if born at 5-6 months (3-4 months premature). So where is the cut off? And if you can give a precise answer, will that cut-off change if neonatal care improves?
if men were the ones who became pregnant, gave birth have abortions etc (please forget the physical boundries of this, im not trying to be realistic - its purely hypothetical), would have abortion ever became legalised in the 60's due to the rise of feminism?
cos there are a lot of females in the world who say 'its my body, my choice' - so would they be so quick to say this if the tables were turned?
just wondering <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0"> cos i now how that men get no legal rights when it comes to abortion or neonatal - but the second the child is born absent/divorced/separated fathers get pounced on by CSA because 'they are responsible'
The child's right to life has been discussed, but what about it's rights to security, a roof, food and water? If they cannot be provided, then it is not going to be a very enjoyable life? Yes, things change. Not always.
The life of the mother is another consideration; who makes the decision to choose between one life and another?
I think that each case should be discussed on its individual merits only.
Generalisations are bad.
*Yes, I know. It's ironic.*
It's a widely divisive option. It can only be decided by the mother and or father. I don't like the present legal position where the mother has exclusive rights. The father should have some say, I think. Otherwise we can have situations where the life of the unborn child is used as a bargaining chip in relationships. That's wrong.
And as for the bargaining chip statement, I don't think there is a perfect solution to that. Of course the father should have a say in any abortion that may take place, but I think that the decision making process should be between the mother and father without involving the courts. Think about it, if the mother wants an abortion and the father doesn't, whose rights are more important?
It's a one on one argument so someone must have the deciding vote, and I don't think it should be a judge. It's a private matter and should be discussed in a civil way without a legal dispute. At the end of the day, there is no perfect solution and someone will end up hurt if there is disagreement.
[ 13-01-2002: Message edited by: Agrofrog ]
Anyways, I belive nothing you do is without consequence (every action has a reaction and all that). So if a woman or girl does choose to abort then not only must she wade through the selfish people outside the abortion clinc, trying ever so hard to enforce their opinion on her, but for the rest of her life she will wake up asking "what if". It cant be an easy thing to do.
I'm against it myself but do see the need for choice, as it is better for it to be done in a hospital than the local witchdoctor.
pEOPLE shouldn't be encouraged to use abortion as a form of contraceptive!
If it was safe for the mother to abort at 8 months then I think there's a very good case for it being allowed - not least in the case of rape!
Anyway - my views are obviously going to be in favour of continuing with the abortion laws we have now
[ 16-01-2002: Message edited by: byny ]
i dont think that there is any excuse for an abortion ever, and euthanasia is murder too cos god will let them die when it's there time. girls who have abortions shouldnt be having sex anyway if theyre not prepared to have a baby they shouldnt be doing it even if they do use contraception and it goes wrong, most of them just cant be bothered with it so if they feel bad it serves them right.
thats what i think anyway <IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0">
We took God out of the equation ages ago. Medicine means that people no longer die when its their time. Most of us wouldnt live to 40 if not for todays medicine.
Surely euthanasia is just the ending of the extra time we tack on the end of Gods life.