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Cameron reckons the EU hates Muslims and Turks

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/7910898/Cameron-urges-EU-to-drop-prejudice-against-Turkey.html

Nothing to do with Turkey's fucking appalling human right records then.

Or presumably since they're a NATO country their abominable treatment of Kurds is alright. And apparently they're "defending Europe" and "guarding it" against pesky outsiders as well (LOL x 1,000,000)!

What an utter tosser the man is.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Plus they banned Richard Dawkins website because he "insulted" the creationist twat Harun Yahya/Adnan Onkar... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/2987807/Richard-Dawkins-website-banned-in-Turkey.html

    That was 2 years ago. Dunno if the ban is still in place.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/7910898/Cameron-urges-EU-to-drop-prejudice-against-Turkey.html

    Nothing to do with Turkey's fucking appalling human right records then.

    Or presumably since they're a NATO country their abominable treatment of Kurds is alright. And apparently they're "defending Europe" and "guarding it" against pesky outsiders as well (LOL x 1,000,000)!

    What an utter tosser the man is.

    Actually, I'm not sure that criticism is entirely fair, Aladdin.

    Turkey understands that it must reform its freedom of speech, human rights record etc but one of the biggest criticisms by mainland Europe of Turkey joining the union, is that Turkey is not culturally "European". In fact, Jacques Delors once said that the EU was a "Christian club" and this view still continues to be held in some European Christian Democrat parties.

    Other fears are that it will cause a wave of Turkish immigrants, another is that widening the EU to include Turkey will prevent further deepening of political and economic union, another is that Turkey is too big and will therefore exercise too much power within the EU and, lastly, that it is too poor, and will cost the rest of the EU too much.

    Turkey will be obligated to reform their human rights issues if they came to the table during negotiations - but they have to past get this closed minded attitude of 'Christian' Europe.

    If anything, Cameron encouraging Europe to accept Turkey into the EU - which must result in reform - is not such a bad thing. Outside of the EU, they have 'no need to reform', so to speak.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Cameron's simplifying the issue, though admittedly not as much as Stargalaxy is

    The reasons are

    1) It's Human Rights record, which is massively improving and in many areas (such as reversing the burqa ban) is actually better than various EU countries. However, this is very much a strawman - if human rights were a real issue the EU would set a date on membership conditional on various improvements.

    2) Arguments it's not in Europe or that the EU is big enough already

    3) Arguments against letting in a relatively poor country - places like Spain and Portugal fought hard against allowing in the Eastern Europeans as various EU funding streams would go from them to the East. If Turkey came in even more EU funding would go to them rather than Poland, Spain etc.

    4) The wider the EU becomes the shallower it is, so anti-integrationists (such as Cameron) support a wider EU, pro-integrationists want a smaller EU

    5) And as Cameron says anti-Moslem sentiment. Germany is terified of hundreds of thousands of Turks flocking to join its existing 'guest workers', so is France. To ignore that as a reason for some EU states wanting to exclude Turkey is as deluded as claiming the moon is made of blue cheese.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    admittedly not as much as Stargalaxy is

    :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    :confused:

    Lol! I was thinking that! :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    Lol! I was thinking that! :)

    The lack of the C-word should have been a clue :)

    Having said that, Flash is pretty much on the button
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    Having said that, Flash is pretty much on the button

    Absolutely. I tried to write more or less the same thing but he put the argument far more eloquently. :banghead: ;):)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :o Freudian slip - I was just thinking how much their writing styles were the same (okay the use of the word tosser rather than cunt)

    And Teagan reading your post I think it was much better than mine in that you provided evidence (Delors and the Christian Club)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Cameron's simplifying the issue, though admittedly not as much as Stargalaxy is



    5) And as Cameron says anti-Moslem sentiment. Germany is terified of hundreds of thousands of Turks flocking to join its existing 'guest workers', so is France. To ignore that as a reason for some EU states wanting to exclude Turkey is as deluded as claiming the moon is made of blue cheese.
    I'm sorry, how exactly is that 'anti-Moslem'?

    If true, those are economic reasons. Their religion has precisely fuck all to do with it. And Cameron is a cunt for suggesting otherwise.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    The lack of the C-word should have been a clue :)

    Ahem


    http://vbulletin.thesite.org/showpost.php?p=2338143&postcount=10
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Regarding the rest of the reasons Cameron was giving, as I watched his speech on the news...

    - Membership of NATO has shit all to do with membership of the EU. For starters not all members might see it as something positive. But more importantly, the two are unrelated. Otherwise, why not demand the USA is allowed to join the EU while we're at it?

    - The picture of a 'brave' Turkey defending Europe against terrorists, invaders and other Baddies, as Cameron was painting in his speech is as oversimplistic as is utter bollocks. It just came across as Cameron scrapping the bottom of the barrel in his attempt to prop up the case for Turkey joining the EU.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    I'm sorry, how exactly is that 'anti-Moslem'?

    If true, those are economic reasons. Their religion has precisely fuck all to do with it. And Cameron is a cunt for suggesting otherwise.

    Because it's directly related to their religion in that they worried less when they were white christians from Poland, etc
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because it's directly related to their religion in that they worried less when they were white christians from Poland, etc
    In your opinion. Which (in my opinion) is unfounded complete nonsense.

    Either it's to do with the economic impact or is not. Religion simply doesn't come into it. And Germany, of all countries in Europe, is not going to be terribly traumatised if a wave of new workers happen to be mostly Moslem. Mainly on account of having ha loads of them for many decades, and being rather used to their presence.

    I'm sorry, but suggesting there are religious motives behind any alleged reluctance by EU members to allow Turkey to win is an extremely serious charge- and one that in my eyes stands out as complete bollocks unless any evidence is presented to show otherwise, and yet another blunder by a man who is coming across as a bigger moron by the hour.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because it's directly related to their religion in that they worried less when they were white christians from Poland, etc

    Only because they could fill their football team with Poles, like at the World Cup.

    Actually, on that subject, apart from the chap they fielded this year (who was born in Brazil), can anyone remember a black German player?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    In your opinion. Which (in my opinion) is unfounded complete nonsense.

    True, but then I could point out that my opinion is backed up by comments about the EU being a Christian club and its willingness to let in places such as Hungary and Romania, which also had problems with their treatments of ethnic minorities.

    To be fair I probably should have added another reason on my original post which is that the EU isn't keen on having a member with such troublesome borders (and also another which is Greece and the Cyprus issue - which alone is probably enough to kill Turkey's membership stone dead in that Greece will never wear it)
    Either it's to do with the economic impact or is not.

    Not true, it can be both. I listed a number of reasons - including one which was about its economic impact
    Religion simply doesn't come into it. And Germany, of all countries in Europe, is not going to be terribly traumatised if a wave of new workers happen to be mostly Moslem. Mainly on account of having ha loads of them for many decades, and being rather used to their presence.

    That's a bit like saying because the UK's already got immigrants it wants loads more. Except we know its not true. And remember the German Turkish immigrants only actually got the vote in the 90s (following an EU court case forcing them to do so IRRC) as up until 1991 German nationality was based on 'blood law' (ie you had to have German blood, not just be born their)
    I'm sorry, but suggesting there are religious motives behind any alleged reluctance by EU members to allow Turkey to win is an extremely serious charge- and one that in my eyes stands out as complete bollocks unless any evidence is presented to show otherwise, and yet another blunder by a man who is coming across as a bigger moron by the hour

    Is it less a serious charge than what you're saying of Cameron?

    In fact your case seems to just be showing signs of growing desperation (after your claims that a slip on Sky TV was doing down the UK to the US and your ludicrous views on WW2).

    I can't wait for what happens when he goes to India and you find some trumped up charge, perhaps he'll say something like India is an important friend and partner of the UK and you'll start screaming this is a slur on the Special Relationship with the US.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Cameron wants to create discord.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    In your opinion. Which (in my opinion) is unfounded complete nonsense.

    I think the fact that so many of the major European countries are wishing to ban the burqa in public places, is an indication that they don't have any particular love for Islam.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Let me get this straight Flashman. You're saying that if Turkey was a Christian country Germany wouldn't have a problem joining the EU and potentially allowing scores of Turks to move to the Fatherland. But they don't wan't want Turkey to join because the migrants are Muslims.

    That is what you're saying, right?

    Mmm...

    Methinks you're trying a bit too hard to defend Cameron at all costs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Methinks you're trying a bit too hard to defend Cameron at all costs.

    Perhaps you are just so blinkered by your hatred for Cameron that you didn't notice his very fair comments on your own big bugbear, the Israeli bloackage of Gaza?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-10778110

    "The British government's policy has been to call for an end to the blockade, but never before has a British prime minister been so blunt, says the BBC's Jonny Dymond in Ankara."

    You're hardly the most balanced poster on these boards yourself, Mr Aladdin. ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't usually do personal requests on the boards, but since it's a seasoned veteran such as MoK making it, I am happy to make an exception. So here goes...

    Aladdin is correct that David Cameron is a cunt, but I would go further. Weapons-grade cunt just about covers it at the moment, but I suspect that assessment will have to be upgraded (or downgraded, depending on how you look at it) within days. The last two weeks have provided evidence enough for it, for those who weren't already convinced. I suspected that Dave's Tories were going to be a re-run of New Labour under new faces, and I'm increasingly being proven right. At this rate, people are going to want to see the monocular Scottish one make a comeback. He may have been a deluded fucknut, but at least everyone knew he was a deluded fucknut. Everyone's giving Call Me Dave the soft treatment at the moment, much to the detriment of our country. Give it a few months, and watch his personal popularity fall to lows never seen before in British politics, especially as the spending cuts start to really bite.

    As for Turkey, I cannot understand why they would actually want to become a member of the European Union. Their government must be as terminally stupid as ours to want to join this corrupt, power-grabbing union. Besides, the EU has got enough to worry about right now. I have one specific thing in mind when I say that - the hopefully imminent collapse of the Euro.

    Man Of Kent must be a happy man right now...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I don't usually do personal requests on the boards, but since it's a seasoned veteran such as MoK making it, I am happy to make an exception. So here goes...

    blah! blah! blah!

    yawning.jpg
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sanitize wrote: »
    Plus they banned Richard Dawkins website because he "insulted" the creationist twat Harun Yahya/Adnan Onkar... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/2987807/Richard-Dawkins-website-banned-in-Turkey.html

    That was 2 years ago. Dunno if the ban is still in place.
    I've heard Dawkins talk about that though, and he said that it was not a judgement on his website, just that the Turks have some stupid law where if something is complained about, it is banned until a judgement is made (I'm not sure exactly how it works, but that's the jist). Still a dodgy law if we're talking about freedom of speech, because it means that anyone can get anything they disagree with banned, which is probably why unlike every current EU country and prospective EU country, they only rank as "partly free" according to Freedom House.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Let me get this straight Flashman. You're saying that if Turkey was a Christian country Germany wouldn't have a problem joining the EU and potentially allowing scores of Turks to move to the Fatherland. But they don't wan't want Turkey to join because the migrants are Muslims.

    That is what you're saying, right?

    Mmm...

    Methinks you're trying a bit too hard to defend Cameron at all costs.

    No - I'm not saying that as I listed a number of other factors which are also in play. what I am saying is that it is a reason and a major one at that
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I should also make clear its not the religion per se that is the problem. It's not that Germany and France are trying to keep their countries religously united with everyone going to Church; but the cultural differences bound up in the religion which is why they are worried about letting in potentially hundreds of thousands of Turks.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No - I'm not saying that as I listed a number of other factors which are also in play. what I am saying is that it is a reason and a major one at that
    We'll have to agree to disagree. In any event, the initial purpose was not to scrutinise your views but those of our Prime Minister. And his remarks still come across as little more than ill-advised garbage. Perhaps you should start advising them on public speaking, because the bottom line remains that suggesting "the EU is anti-Muslim and that's why they don't want to let Turkey in" is appalling rubbish and certainly untrue and unfounded.

    FAO Teegan: yes, I am aware of the Gaza comments and I congratulate Cameron on them. I have been complimentary of him before as well you know (see Heathrow's third runway decision). That I dislike the man does not mean my criticism of some of his comments is unfounded. His 'junior partner' comments, even if partially true, were completely uncalled for and embarrassing; his anti EU rant about Turkey the same; and I see he's gone for the hat-trick today and has had to rectify/clarify some remarks about Pakistan he'd made hours earlier.

    It seems to me the man is touring countries in search of business deals and seems to think engaging in a bit of arse kissing by saying what the country in question wants to hear is the way forward. I wouldn't be surprised if he visits China and says the Dalai Lama should be strung up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    FAO Teegan: yes, I am aware of the Gaza comments and I congratulate Cameron on them. I have been complimentary of him before as well you know (see Heathrow's third runway decision). That I dislike the man does not mean my criticism of some of his comments is unfounded. His 'junior partner' comments, even if partially true, were completely uncalled for and embarrassing; his anti EU rant about Turkey the same; and I see he's gone for the hat-trick today and has had to rectify/clarify some remarks about Pakistan he'd made hours earlier.

    It seems to me the man is touring countries in search of business deals and seems to think engaging in a bit of arse kissing by saying what the country in question wants to hear is the way forward. I wouldn't be surprised if he visits China and says the Dalai Lama should be strung up.

    So really, what you're arguing about is more about his lack of delivery finesse rather than what is his intention, which is economic diplomacy. This country is in the shit. We need all the investment we can get. The money required for future NHS, schooling, etc, depends on it. Every country looks out for its own needs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    I think the fact that so many of the major European countries are wishing to ban the burqa in public places, is an indication that they don't have any particular love for Islam.

    That would bring those European countries more in line with most Muslim countries who will not tolerate the hideous thing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That would bring those European countries more in line with most Muslim countries who will not tolerate the hideous thing.

    'Most' Muslim countries? The ones that I can think of out of 16 Muslim countries or so, only ban it in public buildings, schools etc. Enlighten me to who these 'most' are please 'cos I'm not sure that's correct? :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    So really, what you're arguing about is more about his lack of delivery finesse rather than what is his intention, which is economic diplomacy. This country is in the shit. We need all the investment we can get. The money required for future NHS, schooling, etc, depends on it. Every country looks out for its own needs.
    I'm arguing for the man to retain some common dignity and not to embarrass and piss off everyone.

    Junior partner= completely uncalled for and disgraceful attempt to kiss arse.

    EU being anti-Muslim= utter bullshit of an almost racist nature. Tell me, how good do you think such comments might prove for business with our EU partners?

    Pakistan= another gaffe, certainly if promoting business is what drives him. If business is what you want, you do not go about insulting half the fucking world to please a number of other countries.

    The man's a muppet.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Pakistan= another gaffe, certainly if promoting business is what drives him. If business is what you want, you do not go about insulting half the fucking world to please a number of other countries.

    India is a far more important and lucrative trading partner than Pakistan. And you can't deny that in many ways, Pakistan (a country that is hugely corrupt and has generally been undemocratic) has been guilty of turning a blind eye to the Afghanistan Taliban.
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