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So the BBC is left-wing and 'anti'-Israeli', is it??

MixBotMixBot Posts: 8,656 Automated Account
BBC refuses to broadcast Gaza charity appeal

I'm fucking sick and disgusted beyond words.

I'm going to ignore the so called Godwin's Law, because there is only one comparison that comes to mind. This is fucking akin to the BBC (if it had existed then) refusing to broadcast a charity appeal in 1945 for victims of the Nazi death camps, in case it is seen as taking sides and not wanting to alineate the Germans...

So can we once and for all drop the bullshit about the BBC being left wing, anti-Israeli and blah blah blah? It couldn't be further from the truth.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The BBC aren't biased. They're just professional fence-sitters, which is worse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What I don't understand, is that if you take that line of argument, then shouldn't the bbc be impartial to CLEARLY abhorrent regimes. So they should not broadcast information on the holocaust, because that makes Nazi Germany looks bad. And the BBC doesn't want that...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    BBC refuses to broadcast Gaza charity appeal

    I'm fucking sick and disgusted beyond words.

    I'm going to ignore the so called Godwin's Law, because there is only one comparison that comes to mind. This is fucking akin to the BBC (if it had existed then) refusing to broadcast a charity appeal in 1945 for victims of the Nazi death camps, in case it is seen as taking sides and not wanting to alineate the Germans...

    So can we once and for all drop the bullshit about the BBC being left wing, anti-Israeli and blah blah blah? It couldn't be further from the truth.

    Jeepers, Aladdin. You don't half fuckin' exaggerate.

    "This is fucking akin to the BBC (if it had existed then) refusing to broadcast a charity appeal in 1945 for victims of the Nazi death camps"???

    One swallow makes a Summer? The BBC can't get it right ALL the time. For a public broadcasting company, they tread a fine line and will make mistakes in judgement. Generally, their broadcast of the Gaza story hasn't painted Israel in a good picture.

    I know I should just accept your over exuberant Latin temperament but keep some self-control and try and be a bit more honest, yeah? :banghead:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    BBC refuses to broadcast Gaza charity appeal

    I'm fucking sick and disgusted beyond words.

    I'm going to ignore the so called Godwin's Law, because there is only one comparison that comes to mind. This is fucking akin to the BBC (if it had existed then) refusing to broadcast a charity appeal in 1945 for victims of the Nazi death camps, in case it is seen as taking sides and not wanting to alineate the Germans...

    So can we once and for all drop the bullshit about the BBC being left wing, anti-Israeli and blah blah blah? It couldn't be further from the truth.

    So am I... that you think that what's gone on in Gaza is any way comparable. I seriously suggest you educate yourself a bit more about the Nazi camps before suggesting it is anyway akin...

    Its comments like yours which convince me and more that the Jews need a state and it needs to be defended...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    However ignoring Aladdin's rather unpleasant rant...

    It's a hard one. I can see why the BBC is concerned it may compromise it's neutrality, but at the same time I'm sure an appeal could be crafted in such a way that it doesn't seek to blame, but just points out that there's been fighting and plenty of people have been injured and made homeless.

    In fact the DECC doesn't even need to concentrate on Palestine/Israel, but do a joint appeal for funding for a variety of wars. For example, bringing in Sri Lanka and the Congo Sri Lanka is hotting up (including strikes on hospitals) and the situation in the Congo is, if anything, much worse than the Middle East.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The appeal is purely a charity one, for the 1.4 million Gazans, most of which enduring ghetto-like, appalling conditions with no power, water, and in many cases homes.

    Please note that I am not suggesting that what the Israelis have done equals what the Nazis did.

    But what I suggest that the conflict is as equally one-sided (one side sustaining well more than 99% of all casualties and being oppressed, abused and terrorised by the other) as that of Nazis versus Jewish resistant groups in Germany, Poland or the Netherlands. And indeed, for the BBC to suggest it would not want to promote a charity appeal for one side only is as absurd, ludicrous and insulting as it would have been in the Nazy hypothetical scenario.

    So I fully stand by that comparison.
  • JsTJsT TheSite Graduate Posts: 18,265 Incredible Poster
    Its not about making a politican stance at all though - its about trying to provide financial and other support for those caught up in this conflict. For that reason alone the BBC should show it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whilst reading the blog of Tom Harris MP earlier, I noticed that he'd sent off an update from Twitter saying simply "Are the BBC mental?". I'm inclined to agree with that view.

    UPDATE: Mark Thompson, director general at Al-JaBeeba, has posted on a BBC blog explaining why they took that decision. It's only been up 2 hours and the readers have given him an absolute mauling.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Getting red up of Israeli apologists, really. IF we were back in WW2, and there was an aid appeal put forward by the DEC (who are a group of charities who decide on aid appeals) in favour of giving aid, homes, shelter, food, medicine, to Jewish victims of the holocast, and the BBC said "we don't want to get involved with the political side, really..." you know you would be outraged.

    Of course without doubt it's not the same as Nazis, but come on. It's a current tragedy that's happening now, how many people have died and are dying. How many people have lost their homes? The same process applies completely. If you're not outraged as you would be in the above example, it's not because there isn't suffering occuring, but because there's not enough of it on a wide enough scale.

    And that's not really a brilliant excuse, when I think we can agree that the humanitarian crisis is significant enough to warrant international aid.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Shyboy, my post wasn't just about the comparison to the Nazis. The BBC is definitely more left wing than it is right wing (and I don't mean 'communism' left wing - just 'general' left wing). Chucking the baby out of the bath water because they screwed up on this decision not to broadcast the Gaza appeal definitely doesn't align them to the BNP. The BBC ARE more left-wing. They ARE sympathetic to the Gaza situation. Aladdin (bless him) does get into a huff with his hatred for Israel (rightly or wrongly).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    Shyboy, my post wasn't just about the comparison to the Nazis. The BBC is definitely more left wing than it is right wing (and I don't mean 'communism' left wing - just 'general' left wing). Chucking the baby out of the bath water because they screwed up on this decision not to broadcast the Gaza appeal definitely doesn't align them to the BNP. The BBC ARE more left-wing. They ARE sympathetic to the Gaza situation. Aladdin (bless him) does get into a huff with his hatred for Israel (rightly or wrongly).
    Perhaps the BBC itself isn't pro-Israeli, but this decision certainly is. Whether someone has intervened on this occasion, or the BBC is genuinely pro-Israeli is for you to decided, but there is no doubt this is one of the most disgraceful, politically motived and fucking appalling decisions in the history of the corporation.

    Incidentally, I do not hate Israel at all. That you appear to think otherwise makes me wonder whether your opinion on this matter might be on the whole rather distorted.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Perhaps the BBC itself isn't pro-Israeli, but this decision certainly is. Whether someone has intervened on this occasion, or the BBC is genuinely pro-Israeli is for you to decided, but there is no doubt this is one of the most disgraceful, politically motived and fucking appalling decisions in the history of the corporation.

    Incidentally, I do not hate Israel at all. That you appear to think otherwise makes me wonder whether your opinion on this matter might be on the whole rather distorted.

    To be fair Aladdin the BBC was never going to win this one, if they had aired the ad they would have been accused of being pro Palestine. They havn't and they're accused of being pro Israel. Yes the BBC was fine to air an appeal for the Tsunami a number of years ago. But as bad as it sounds people would probably rather donate their money to something like that, rather than the outcome of the complicated issues in the Middle East.

    Someone has made what they feel is the right editorial decision.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But can't the argument be made it's not about 'winning' a political vote but doing what is right.

    I have no doubt that the people in Israel affected by the missile attacks will be well catered for by their communities, by the Israeli government, and by the rest of the world. Just remember how much money gets sent from American Jews over there.

    In the same conflict, fifty thousand people are now completely homeless. Give or take a bit, a thousand dead, two and a half thousand injured. National infrastructure bombed to buggery. There's nothing left for them to look after themselves. Will the American patriots be sending over food packages? Hell no.

    Really, what would be convenient for Israel, is if the rest of the world just forgot about Palestine. Pretend these people don't exist, and let them just fade away. I think it's important as humans to live up to our responsibility, even if it's hard, even if it's politically inconvenient because we might offend Israel by showing compassion for those in Palestine (after all, Israel would have us believe they're all terrorists who aren't humanly capable of compromise. They're less than human).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Incidentally, I do not hate Israel at all. That you appear to think otherwise makes me wonder whether your opinion on this matter might be on the whole rather distorted.

    Aladdin, I completely agree with you that Israel's action in Gaza is despicable. However, as I said earlier in the previous debate, Hamas has repeatedly goaded Israel into a war which Hamas KNOW that they cannot win - but Hamas is quite happy to allow their citizens to die for the sake of international moral outrage and propaganda. I hate Israel's actions in Gaza, the occupied territories etc but I also hate the fact that Hamas thinks it has a mandate to kill its own citizens by proxy in antagonising Israel. So if you are still 'wondering' about my opinion, keep on wondering ... the two sides are as bad as each other. And don't be deceived into thinking, if Hamas had the firepower to use far more deadly rockets in their attacks on Israel, that they would not have hesitated to use them in their daily attacks.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd say that if you interchange 'Hamas' with 'Israel' in your comment, it would read just as well, if not better. At the end of the day, the Israeli government continues to be happy having its citizens put at risk by continuing to keep onto the stolen land, bulding and populating illegal settlements on Palestinian land, and subjecting an entire people to a catalogue of human right abuses of unspeakable nature for more than 40 years.

    But all of that is beside the point here. The point here is that right now the people of Gaza are suffering a humanitarian crisis that make the poorest countries of Africa feel like Monaco. That the BBC suggests it would be wrong to broadcast the appeal because it would seem it only cared about victims of one side is as fucking patronising as is wrong, absurd and ludicrous.

    When 85% of the people of Israel live in ghetto conditions, surrounded by Apartheid walls, movement-restricted, without water, electricity, basic infrastructure, jobs, hope or homes, I'll be the first one to campaign for the BBC to broadcast for a charity appeal, and I'll gladly donate to their plight.

    This is arguably the single most despicable and unjustified single action in the entire history of the Corporation. A cowardly, politically motivated hideous action that should be fought and condemned to the bitter end.

    And yes, as ludicrous as refusing to show pity to the victims of Nazism, lest one is seen as taking sides and not being impartial.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote: »
    To be fair Aladdin the BBC was never going to win this one, if they had aired the ad they would have been accused of being pro Palestine. They havn't and they're accused of being pro Israel. Yes the BBC was fine to air an appeal for the Tsunami a number of years ago. But as bad as it sounds people would probably rather donate their money to something like that, rather than the outcome of the complicated issues in the Middle East.

    Someone has made what they feel is the right editorial decision.
    I honestly don't think even the most pro-Zionist lunatic would have had much of a problem with the emergency appeal. That there is a very serious humanitarian crisis in Gaza nobody denies- not even the State of Israel. Who is to blame for it is another matter, but that is not what the appeal is about- it is about providing urgent help to people in dire need.

    The BBC has created a crisis where none had existed. Now, of course, if it were to backtrack a few twisted cunts would probably cry foul. But I have no doubt they would have not done so had the BBC showed the broadcast without making a fuss about it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    But all of that is beside the point here. The point here is that right now the people of Gaza are suffering a humanitarian crisis that make the poorest countries of Africa feel like Monaco. That the BBC suggests it would be wrong to broadcast the appeal because it would seem it only cared about victims of one side is as fucking patronising as is wrong, absurd and ludicrous.

    Actually, putting aside our disagreements here ( :) ), I would venture to say that the BBC issue has actually done the Gaza humanitarian appeal more good than harm. How many people would have been aware or even seen the appeal beforehand - but now the BBC has put the whole serious situation in the spotlight? Let's hope the appeal raises unprecedented amounts of money for the Gazeans that need the help. I assume you have offered up your salary this month as a donation, Aladdin? :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not my whole salary but as much as I can afford.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My theory would be that Israel is rich, and the pro-Israel lobby is rich. Palestinians are poor. So by 'not taking a side' (when really, they are taking Israel's side) they are getting themselves in favour with rich and powerful people.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Predictably Sky has declined to show the appeal as well. Little surprise there though, seeing as Rupert Murdoch is one of the most rabid pro-Zinoists there are. Not much loss either, given the next to absolute nothing market share Sky gets.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So am I... that you think that what's gone on in Gaza is any way comparable. I seriously suggest you educate yourself a bit more about the Nazi camps before suggesting it is anyway akin...

    Its comments like yours which convince me and more that the Jews need a state and it needs to be defended...

    Plenty of people need states. What makes Jewish people special? I'm happy that they're there, and such, but we shouldn't make out that they have a greater need of a homeland than any other people, otherwise it just legitimitizes their expulsion of arabs over 40 years.

    As an aside, you know Tzipi Livni, who has been calling a lot of the shots in all this - her father was the leader of the Jewish terrorist organisation (although, it's fondly referred to as 'paramilitary' these days) involved in the killing of gentiles (similar to the IRA in some senses). Like father like daughter, she joined mossad, then eventually worked her way into politics. With a family and background like that, it doesn't take a leap of faith to guess that looking after innocents isn't her greatest priority.

    The main frustration for me, is so many people are blind to it all. It's there in black and white. But then all this diversion crap comes up about 'Well, it's hamas trying to provoke them'. We could spend all day criticisizing hamas but at the end of the day it's the Israeli government that has done 90% of the damage.

    Because they are representative of the Jewish people though, we have a collective guilt about criticising Israel. Something, thankfully, I have no such reservations about because a) I wasn't involved in the holocaust b) it was several generations ago now and even with something on that epic scale there is a point where you need to stop making it change the political landscape of today, because imo it's no longer politically relevent. Nazi Germany is gone. War reparations were paid.

    Otherwise we end up in a similar position to where Ireland was, with all the killings with regards to a war fought 300/400 years ago. It's a ridiculous cycle of an eye for an eye for an eye. And lets not pretend Israel doesn't liken Hamas to the Nazi's all the time. "We survived the Nazi's, we will survive Hamas".

    As George Bush says "we need to stop hizbollah doing this shit" - well, I say "we need to stop Israel doing this shit". But everyone is silent. It's faux pas to criticise Israel because it's anti semitic. Although the only people who have killed 1300+ semites and injured thousands more recently are, surprisingly enough, Israel.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Plenty of people need states. What makes Jewish people special? I'm happy that they're there, and such, but we shouldn't make out that they have a greater need of a homeland than any other people, otherwise it just legitimitizes their expulsion of arabs over 40 years..

    I would say the Holocaust as the pinnacle (but not the only example of 2000 years of anti-semitism)
    As an aside, you know Tzipi Livni, who has been calling a lot of the shots in all this - her father was the leader of the Jewish terrorist organisation (although, it's fondly referred to as 'paramilitary' these days) involved in the killing of gentiles (similar to the IRA in some senses). Like father like daughter, she joined mossad, then eventually worked her way into politics. With a family and background like that, it doesn't take a leap of faith to guess that looking after innocents isn't her greatest priority.

    I didn't, but I also don't find it relevant. I've never believed in the 'Sins of the Father'

    The main frustration for me, is so many people are blind to it all. It's there in black and white. But then all this diversion crap comes up about 'Well, it's hamas trying to provoke them'. We could spend all day criticisizing hamas but at the end of the day it's the Israeli government that has done 90% of the damage.

    I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Israel may have done more damage, but its not doing it for shit and giggles. It is off course relevant that Israel is attacking Gaza, but it is also relevant that Hamas is attacking Israel. The fact that one is more effective than the other doesn't, however, influence the moral decision (or else I'd have been supporting some pretty unsavoury regimes when they were getting their asses kicked)
    Because they are representative of the Jewish people though, we have a collective guilt about criticising Israel. Something, thankfully, I have no such reservations about because a) I wasn't involved in the holocaust b) it was several generations ago now and even with something on that epic scale there is a point where you need to stop making it change the political landscape of today, because imo it's no longer politically relevent. Nazi Germany is gone. War reparations were paid.


    However, it is relevant to Israel. You may think its ancient history, but then you live in a society which has never been subject to attempted genocide and which isn't under threat

    Otherwise we end up in a similar position to where Ireland was, with all the killings with regards to a war fought 300/400 years ago. It's a ridiculous cycle of an eye for an eye for an eye. And lets not pretend Israel doesn't liken Hamas to the Nazi's all the time. "We survived the Nazi's, we will survive Hamas".

    of course. My argument is that this is all circular, with tit for tat going on so long that any neutral observer must throw up their hands and say "You're both wrong/right"
    As George Bush says "we need to stop hizbollah doing this shit" - well, I say "we need to stop Israel doing this shit". But everyone is silent. It's faux pas to criticise Israel because it's anti semitic. Although the only people who have killed 1300+ semites and injured thousands more recently are, surprisingly enough, Israel

    Ignoring the dubious suggestion about suggesting that anti-semitism not existing because the original meaning of semite didn't mean Jew, the idea that there is a silence of criticism of Israel seems to be a little misplaced. I would argue that Israel gets a disproportionate amount of criticism, I haven't seen many marches about Sri Lanka recently or the Congo.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Again, right and wrong are abstract concepts - humanitarian concerns like food, sanitary conditions, medical supplies etc. aren't.

    Sort blame out later, sort aid out now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Also agree with the point about proportionality of coverage in relation to other human rights abuses, but it has been ever thus; doesn't mean we shouldn't help.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would say the Holocaust as the pinnacle (but not the only example of 2000 years of anti-semitism)

    But would that mean the moors should also return to Spain, the Native American Indians should have their own state, and so on and so forth? Although the holocaust is certainly the most extreme example of inhumanity it's not the only one. Like I said, I'm not apposed to the Jewish homeland in any way, just that we shouldn't approach with the attitude that they are entitled to one anymore than any other people (as it justifies their actions).
    I didn't, but I also don't find it relevant. I've never believed in the 'Sins of the Father'

    Me neither, but I think it's telling that she was raised in a household that believed in Eretz Israel, then joined Mossad (which is in my mind a bunch of fundamentalists with a licence to kill / torture / abduct), and then she gets a political position and promptly orders the levelling of Gaza.
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Israel may have done more damage, but its not doing it for shit and giggles. It is off course relevant that Israel is attacking Gaza, but it is also relevant that Hamas is attacking Israel. The fact that one is more effective than the other doesn't, however, influence the moral decision (or else I'd have been supporting some pretty unsavoury regimes when they were getting their asses kicked)

    I would argue that Israel really does have the ball in it's court. I would also argue that ultimately peace is only acceptable if it's in Israel's terms. Only this year, Israel is now saying they will not accept peace unless all the Jewish people who left other middle eastern countries (under duress or otherwise) are compensated fully. More blocks in the way of peace. One has to imagine a country with the resources and international support (of governments that count, such as the G8) if it really wanted peace, it would not find it too difficult to achieve that aim.
    However, it is relevant to Israel. You may think its ancient history, but then you live in a society which has never been subject to attempted genocide and which isn't under threat

    Which is just evidence that I don't have a victim-complex. Of course it's historically relevent - we must learn from the past and never let history repeat itself. But there's a difference between that, and it being politically relevent. Look at the slave trade - I don't feel I need to feel guilty towards that because I had no part in it, and of course I will condemn it, but there's no way I'm affording anyone special treatment unless they were directly affected.
    of course. My argument is that this is all circular, with tit for tat going on so long that any neutral observer must throw up their hands and say "You're both wrong/right"

    Ignoring the dubious suggestion about suggesting that anti-semitism not existing because the original meaning of semite didn't mean Jew, the idea that there is a silence of criticism of Israel seems to be a little misplaced. I would argue that Israel gets a disproportionate amount of criticism, I haven't seen many marches about Sri Lanka recently or the Congo.

    I agree both sides need to throw their hands up and say they're wrong. Can you really see Israel doing that though? Ultimately, they're the ones with the nukes, and just as Obama said the other day, they need to hold onto their 'better' principles. My opinion is that they have none, and if it weren't for the rest of the world watching, they would happily push the arabs into the sea.

    As for the anti-semitism argument, it is true that if you criticise Israel you are classed as an anti-semite. You are immediately grouped with neo-Nazis and so on. I don't believe the conspiracy theories of the Israeli right that 'the world is out to get them'. I believe that the most powerful governments of the world have allowed this to happen by inaction and keeping silent.

    People are marching about it (and, not being heard by those in power, obviously the marchers are written off as anti-semites) because it's current. That's how people work. We are completely flawed in only caring about the stuff that is in front of us. China had it's turn aplenty, as did our own government when they went to Iraq.

    Just because people only get het up about what's in the news, doesn't make their moral objection any less valid. Again, it's a frequent argument thrown about "you don't moan about ..." in order to deflect negative attention towards Israel. Very rarely will any defender of Israel's actions actually account for them, instead deflecting the blame onto hamas, or saying it's the world press, or saying worse things are happening elsewhere, and so on and so forth.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So am I... that you think that what's gone on in Gaza is any way comparable. I seriously suggest you educate yourself a bit more about the Nazi camps before suggesting it is anyway akin...

    Its comments like yours which convince me and more that the Jews need a state and it needs to be defended...
    Oh, I completely missed your post the first time round, and only noticed it when ShyBoy reply to it.

    No, as I explained in post no. 7, (which was posted after your reply) I am not suggesting Gaza and the Holocaust can be compared. That is not what was meant at all. I trust my earlier post clarified that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Again, right and wrong are abstract concepts - humanitarian concerns like food, sanitary conditions, medical supplies etc. aren't.

    Sort blame out later, sort aid out now.

    We're probably de-railing this thread, given that we've got a perfectly good thread on the rights and wrongs elsewhere.

    But yeah BBC should have shown it. If they had worries they should have asked DEC to rework it. Or at worst asked that it widened into a general appeal for all victims of war worldwide
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But yeah BBC should have shown it. If they had worries they should have asked DEC to rework it. Or at worst asked that it widened into a general appeal for all victims of war worldwide

    :yes: Well said.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't agree with them not showing it but in a sense it's probably brought more publicity than it would've done if they had shown it.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,212 Skive's The Limit
    lea_uk wrote: »
    I don't agree with them not showing it but in a sense it's probably brought more publicity than it would've done if they had shown it.

    Possibly but that wasn't the reason for the BBC not showing it.
    I generally think the BBC is great, but it dropped a bollock on this one.

    Tony Benn on BBC 24. :thumb:
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ix5CkWWeSmI
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
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