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The museum tour from hell

http://www.glumbert.com/media/ruinmuseum

Words fucking fail me.

If I were the museum owners I would only grant permission for such tours if scientists were allowed to to visit these children at their church during Sunday service and examine some of the claims made by the Bible a little closer.

No. Come to think of it, I'd simply tell the two gentlemen to piss off and do their brainwashing elsewhere.

Poor kids... :no:
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Did you watch Jesus Camp the other night? If you want a scary movie, watch that. It has Ted "completely heterosexual" Haggard in it, and the usual bunch of people who make a living out of lying to and intimidating children with stories of vengeful gods. I feel sorry for the kids, because people like this, and their "Intelligent Design" peers are turning America into the laughing stock of science education, when in the past it was the leading light.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    J wrote: »
    The bible teaches kids to be Good.

    Of course it does. Here's a full list of the morals the bible teaches to children. I particularly like the one about how if a virgin who isn't engaged is raped, she must marry her rapist.

    But what's this got to do with lying to children about scientific facts, because they happen to disprove your religious beliefs? Taking kids to the museum is about teaching them what's true, not what's moral or what you would like to be true. Anyone who cares about their fellow humans cares about science education. The sequencing of the human genome, which is the basis of a lot of the evolutionary theory they deny could one day be responsible for identifying and treating a genetic condition in one of these creationists. And the ultimate irony is that these idiots would probably thank their god, rather than the hard work of their intelligent and caring fellow humans of the past 150 years.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    J wrote: »
    The bible teaches kids to be Good. How can that be bad for them? It's only people being bad that leads them astray and drags the whole world down from where it could be. The innocence we were born with.

    Jesus loves me! This I know,
    For the Bible tells me so.
    Little ones to Him belong;
    They are weak, but He is strong.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    http://www.glumbert.com/media/ruinmuseum

    Words fucking fail me.

    If I were the museum owners I would only grant permission for such tours if scientists were allowed to to visit these children at their church during Sunday service and examine some of the claims made by the Bible a little closer.

    No. Come to think of it, I'd simply tell the two gentlemen to piss off and do their brainwashing elsewhere.

    Poor kids... :no:

    The part I found the most disturbing of that vid is when the children are made to parrot what he says
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The part I found the most disturbing of that vid is when the children are made to parrot what he says

    They have to cram it in while they're young and Santa Claus susceptible. If they left it until they were older and had developed some critical thinking skills, they'd never get it to stick.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And this is why there should be no religious education for children.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    And this is why there should be no religious education for children.

    Children should be educated about all the religions; what better way to show a child how man-made and nonsensical the whole thing is by showing them all the fantastically silly ways people have tried to deny their own mortality?

    The indoctrination of children into one particular religion is what is dangerous.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    And this is why there should be no religious education for children.
    What lies behind your vehemous hatred of religion? We need to know. There are countless instances on the boards where you've been foaming at the mouth in anger about the subject. Where does it come from? Were you expelled from Sunday school as a child or something? :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The indoctrination of children into one particular religion is what is dangerous.

    I am of a similar persuasion, but I cannot see State education ending any time soon.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    What lies behind your vehemous hatred of religion? We need to know. There are countless instances on the boards where you've been foaming at the mouth in anger about the subject. Where does it come from? Were you expelled from Sunday school as a child or something? :p

    I'm sure you'd agree with something like scientology being taught at school, or being taught that the tooth fairy is real, why should it be anydifferent for the major religions?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    What lies behind your vehemous hatred of religion? We need to know. There are countless instances on the boards where you've been foaming at the mouth in anger about the subject. Where does it come from? Were you expelled from Sunday school as a child or something? :p
    As I've stated many times I've no problem with adults believing in whatever they want to believe so long as they don't try to restrict the freedoms of others and don't try to impose their views on others or on children.
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    Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    Aladdin wrote: »
    As I've stated many times I've no problem with adults believing in whatever they want to believe so long as they don't try to restrict the freedoms of others and don't try to impose their views on others or on children.
    xsazx wrote: »
    christians don't necessarily say creation took place in 6 x 24hr days (there's no exact knowledge of how many hours it took, just a representation for understanding)

    and it's possible to believe in creationalism and evolution, not that it's worth explaining here
    I agree with both.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    xsazx wrote: »
    christians don't necessarily say creation took place in 6 x 24hr days (there's no exact knowledge of how many hours it took, just a representation for understanding)

    and it's possible to believe in creationalism and evolution, not that it's worth explaining here
    Not the branch of creationism those two were peddling.

    The Earth is billions of years old, not a few thousand. And dinosaurs such as T-rex were not herbivores as the two nutters told the children. Those are undeniable facts and anyone who claims otherwise should keep such opinions to themselves rather than brainwash children with them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    As I\'ve stated many times I\'ve no problem with adults believing in whatever they want to believe so long as they don\'t try to restrict the freedoms of others and don\'t try to impose their views on others or on children.

    I agree with that statement Aladdin but does YOUR tolerance extend to the man-made global warming believers ? Or are those believers a special case and should be allowed to restrict the freedoms of others and impose their views on others or on children ?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Very poor analogy. You're mixing up religion with the environment. Two entirely different things. The environment affect us all whether accept the overwhelming amount of scientific evidence regarding global warming or not. However I am not affected by others believing in deities.

    Besides, you got it wrong: there is overwhelming evidence to support man-made global warming. Those who believe otherwise choose to do so at their own peril and without any back-up evidence; and it is them who restrict the freedoms of others and harms us all.

    Driving a monster truck through congested city centres or being wasteful for the sake of it is not a "freedom". Breathing clean air is. But enough of the derail.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the analogy is fair.

    Pope Al Gore has made a proclamation and any, and all, heretics are subject to the Inquisition. He, and his flock, are the ones mixing religion with the environment. It is not science, it is opinions. That is a belief.

    I doubt I will get you to see that, because it is YOUR religious belief.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Pope Al Gore has made a proclamation and any, and all, heretics are subject to the Inquisition. He, and his flock, are the ones mixing religion with the environment. It is not science, it is opinions. That is a belief.
    I admit that it does seem that way sometimes, and it's a problem because it stifles legitimate debate. But then there is still a hell of a difference between restricting the freedoms of other based on scientific evidence, and restricting the freedoms of other based on religious beliefs, moral opinions, political opinions, or whatever else. We restrict freedoms based on scientific evidence all the time. Whether or not you agree with the decision to restrict freedoms based on the evidence presented in a case such as the smoking ban, drink driving limits, or the environmental restrictions, the point is that a scientific case what required to be made. That's quite different from "I believe this without any evidence, and so it must be made illegal to teach evolution in school/for two men to have sex/to eat pork." There has been a clear case made for man-made climate change based on evidence, and if you disagree with it, then you are welcome to publish a paper on the subject. And if the evidence you present is overwhelming, then the restrictions will be taken away (theoretically anyway - unless your findings happen to be that Cannabis isn't very dangeorus, and your audience is Gordon Brown).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That seems like theory on your part to me.Belief.

    Not much evidence to back up your theories.

    There are said to be 5 motivators that entice you to buy something. Vanity,jealously, lust,greed and fear. Organised religions appear to go for the fear angle ( as you have recently pointed out), and so it is with this new product in the marketplace.

    Sign the contract if you like, but I think it will prove expensive.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That seems like theory on your part to me.Belief.

    Not much evidence to back up your theories.
    I haven't given my opinion on this issue. I simply said that the global warming theory (and I assume by your language, that you're not using the scientific definition of the term "theory" but the colloquial one) is based on evidence. Whether the resulting action is based on that evidence, or something else like a new opportunity for tax revenue is a point for debate, but that doesn't prove the evidence itself wrong.
    There are said to be 5 motivators that entice you to buy something. Vanity,jealously, lust,greed and fear. Organised religions appear to go for the fear angle ( as you have recently pointed out), and so it is with this new product in the marketplace.
    Yes, but fear based on evidence is quite different from fear based on myth. There is a clear difference between the legitimate, evidence-based fear of something like "that tidal wave is heading right for us," and the baseless fear of something like "God will send you to hell if you don't follow the rules of this book." Like I said, if you believe that global warming is the latter form of fear, rather than the former, then it's up to you to prove the scientists wrong using evidence.
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    Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Not the branch of creationism those two were peddling.
    And dinosaurs such as T-rex were not herbivores
    Not related to the thread really, but I do remember reading somewhere that some studies indicated T-Rex might actually have been a herbivore...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not related to the thread really, but I do remember reading somewhere that some studies indicated T-Rex might actually have been a herbivore...
    I've heard suggestions that it was a scavanger rather than a hunter, but never heard any suggestion from anyone that it was a plant eater. In fact, a quick Google on the subject, and the only website even suggesting such a proposition is a website called Christian Answers. It's a pretty big clue when you find a fossil with the fossilized remains of another animal inside it, that said animal might be a meat eater. That's before you even mention the teeth, the front-facing eyes, and the various other things that show it as a carnivore. But I'm always confused by the sort of mental gymnastics that these people will go through to avoid facing the truth that their beliefs aren't a factual account of reality.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's bad because it does seem like brainwashing. But I would never argue against someones right to have an opinion. Just here he is telling them they should dismiss other people's opinions, whereas in the normal education system I've always been encouraged to question things, and have done so much to the despair of my primary school teachers :D

    The best one was this girl in RE, who when we were talking about adam and eve, that their sons would have had to slept with their mother in order to continue the human race!
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    Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    Right, I think I read about it being a scavenger and just didn't remember right. Something about it probably not being able to run very fast.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This isn't just an America problem. Noah's Ark Zoo Farm. Seeming innocent enough. Fun biblical name, but nothing particularly untoward. But click on the Education tab.

    The subtitles in the education section of this website:
    Outreach
    KS1 Workshops
    KS2 Workshops
    KS3/4 Workshops
    AS and A level (16-18)

    All fine so far, until....oh dear...

    The Noah?s Ark story
    Did it really happen?
    Creation biology
    The Earth History website
    The evidence of the fossils
    An Earth billions of years old?
    The faint sun problem
    Bacteria are good for you
    Evolution: yes and no
    Animal classification
    What really happened?

    If you live in the Bristol area, your children could be visiting this exercise in religious propaganda as part of a school trip. And they don't exactly shout about the religious nature of this zoo until you get there. Not only is it the usual lies and deception from these people, but they are now attempting to push their religious propaganda into the UK science curriculum via the back door of school trips.

    Incidentally, I've heard reports from people who have visited, and the staff talks are based on biblical ideas, and the information signs are all based on a young earth creationist perspective. How they managed to run a course that they can claim to encompass Key Stages is beyond me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It looks to me as if you are using the word propaganda in a way that implies that schools are (or should be ?) free of propaganda.

    That seems a naive view if I got it right. They are institutions of propaganda.

    I have heard of school trips to the local hospital, no doubt selling the product to the young mind. Don\'t forget that recruitment teams from the armed forces visit schools.

    Schools are key stages of propaganda.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Surely schools should be all about education?

    A field trip to a hospital is not about propaganda. It's about giving kids an insight of how things work and how life is at a working hospital. It's all about educating kids about adult life and the working environment.

    A field trip to a theme park that feeds kids false information and lies is the opposite of education, and children should be kept away from such places and/or people; certainly during school time and activities.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How about educating children in ways to stay healthy and avoid hospitals. If everyone had perfect health then no-one would be working in a hospital. That would be bad for business, wouldn\'t it ?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    people don't always get ill because they don't make an effort to stay healthy! what a silly comment.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I did not say that they did.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If everyone had perfect health then no-one would be working in a hospital.

    :thumb:
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