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I know this doesn't contribute to the debate but I think your sweeping statement is insulting.
I don't think it's fair to say that GPs now sit around on their bottoms and do nothing, but it isn't incorrect to say that GP pay has increased by about 30% at the same time as their working hours have been cut right back to little more than 9-5 Monday to Friday.
Cheese on Toast, you're talking out of your arse, mate.
Renting is possibly a viable option for single people or young couples, but for a family? I wouldn't rent whilst we have a legal system that allows a landlord to throw you out on the street with one month's notice, and he doesn't even have to give a reason.
And why should someone who's family has lived in London for many generations have to move away from where they are born and bred? The help should be there for people.
Interesting things to note about benefits, too: although housing benefit is paid, if you are a mortgagee and you end up on income support, you have to wait nine months before the Government will help you pay the mortgage. In which time, of course, you've been repossessed. Income support is a "passporting benefit", which guarantees full HB (of the eligible rent) but incapacity benefit is not.
Because I think the current taxation system, which has doubled the tax bill for the poorest 10% of workers to fund a tax cut for the richest 10% of workers, is grossly unfair.
More of the tax burden should be on those who can afford to pay it. And I class myself in that- I'm actually quite angry that my tax bill is £100 lower next year because the people I help at work- the most vulnerable people in society- have a tax bill that is £100 higher.
I have a decent wage and don't mind paying a bit more to help those who don't have the income.
Just because the "office hours" are no longer 24/7 doesn't mean that they don't earn what they are paid either. If anything it just underlines how underpaid they were previously.
Seriously, given the wages attached to the profession which you represent - and the level of responsibility attached - I really don't think that GPs would appreciate a lecture about how overpaid they are from you
P.S. Officially it's 8-6 Monday To Friday... plus sessional rates for those who choose to work weekend and evening for the co-operatives. Reality is that many still work unpaid into the evenings because it's how they get the business of running a practice sorted...
Criminal law solicitors haven't had a payrise since 1992. And most criminal law solicitors work far more antisocial hours than GPs do now.
But I know that the GP wage bill has gone up in Northumberland by about 50% in the last two years, and this is at the time that there are no on-call GPs in the whole county. The nearest out-of-hours service is in Newcastle, which is a piffling 90 miles from Berwick at the other end of the county, and the out-of-hours service has about 10 doctors at any one time to cover an area of about 400 square miles.
If the Criminal Solicitors were offered a 30% pay rise, with fewwer hours, do you think that they would object - even if it means more target related pay - NB GPs don't earn £100k without hitting numerous targets - the practice income is actually only aboy £50 per registered patient (basic) and that has to cover everything including receptionist, nurse, lights, water etc...
The Government made a right arse-up of the OOH service, and the GP contracts, but only because of sinister pressure from the GMC.
No, I disagree and think that you are an idiot for thinking this.
I see what you're saying but I actually think that if they explained to you that a low income job would leave you worse off than being on benefits, you were given GOOD advice. It's a terrible situation though, and one with no easy answers for the job searcher either- work a less than ideal job whilst looking for a good job and be financially worse off, or wait it out on benefits but risk losing self-esteem, future employability and potentially become a long-term benefit claimant completely against your original intention because it made short term financial sense?
Anyway, looking at immigration, one family from Somalia, this is a single mother with three children, had £580 a month to live off. £300 of this went towards rent and the rest went towards living costs. However, another somalian male who wasn't working said that he blamed the benefits system - as at the minute if he goes into employment he will lose out compared to if he didn't.
It makes me feel guilty for receiving so much for my 'difficult' circumstances, but everyone's circumstances are different just in different ways. And others on here, who also get a lot through benefits, and in the benefits system I think should also stop and think.
Something along the lines of 'ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country'.
As it happens, it showed the UK nationals have amongst the worst work ethics of all and 'cant be bothered' to get a job, to use one soundbite. On average the worst immigrant group however was Portugese who on average work 16 hours a week and 7% are receiving income support (as apposed to 4% brits).
It's hard to define disability as well, as I know when my dad had cancer there was no way of him working and it had to cover a house of 5s bills. But if my calculations are correct, he received a similar amount (minus carers allowance and CB for 1) to others on here.
I think there is a serious epidemic of inequity in the UK at the minute, as someone pointed out the difference in incomes between the poor and the rich has only got bigger. However, I think the 'tax and spend' strategy of the UK is actually fueling this, since social welfare is so readily available. Brits, according to the program, on average leave school at 17.5 years. On average, 50% leave school with less than 5 A* - C grades.
Though it will land me in hot water (though this is what this forum is about
It's not a case of sponging off the economy - thevast majority are legitimate and I would not question their right to support. It's a case of a poor attitude seemingly, and the rewards of hard labour being siphoned off to fuel an oversized beaurocratic government that throws money at any problem it comes to before thinking.
I mean, how many schools, hospitals, etc. do you know close to you that have been shut down / demolished and new 'super' ones built? Was it necessary? Have there been significant improvements in the quality of service provided to the population / the 'value' added to society for the cost?
It is, but at a lower rate, which in my eyes makes it a legal scam to pay lower income tax as the people I know that do this take the dividend income as their living income and readily admit that they do it to pay less tax. Do you see why this situation annoys me now? Not sure what Kermit's income bracket/ tax situation is but he brings up another situation with a similar outcome- those more able to cope with higher tax without impacting on their basic living, pay less than the lowest earners where proportionally it has a much higher impact on standard of living. I find this way more distressing than higher numbers of benefit claimants. In fact, I find stats that show that more people are recieving benefits for mental health related claims and the like warming and reassuring that issues that have real and devistating impact on people's lives are being identified better.
Please expand on what it is you think they should stop and think about exactly.
No, you obviously don't feel that guilty about it, considering you are not just 'receiving' these things, you are ACTIVELY CLAIMING and receiving these things. Do explain what you think others who receive financial help should "stop and think about exactly" and what they should then do with these musings- sweet fuck all but continue to do it and smile like yourself?
I agree with the sentiment, but I found it worrying that previously it was that unemployment was higher and disability was lower. Over the past 5+ years unemployment has gone down and disability increased almost like for like. Either more people have become disabled or the benefits agencies way of defining disabled has become more lenient. The fact that the government wants unemployment to look as low as possible could cynically be a driving factor behind this. Around 4.6% of England is claiming DLA in 2005 (no figures for before). 1 in 20 is an impressive figure.
1997, unemployment 7.5%
2002, unemployment 5.1%
To put that in perspective, in those 5 years 1.5 million new jobs were either created, or the flow of workers that previously existed between jobs are no longer fully defined as unemployed. If you're disabled, you're not unemployed.
My next line:
Something along the lines of 'ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country'.
Especially when you consider that for a month a family of 4 may only receive £580.
thank you for being so condescending, i never ever got summer work despite looking all summer and trying a multitude of CV tactics
it's like they purposely pick people who can't spell
comes with his job init!
Actually, no.
I said "I feel guilty" because it's not fair, is it? That those who are from 'disadvantaged' backgrounds are rewarded and those who are just trying to get on with life are not, yet must pay their taxes still, and will continue to do so.
That's why I've brought this thread up, because the government is taking more than it's giving back. I'm not saying that people should give up the money they receive from the government and just hand it over - if it's there it's there for a reason. But be honest and maybe acknowledge it's more than necessary in many cases, and maybe the government has got it's sums wrong in an effort to try to please everyone.
Of course, saying that when you're a recipient of these generous sums seems mad. So maybe, as I said, it's time to "stop and think". You do realise I'm arguing against funding which I am a receiver of because I feel I am over compensated for my circumstances.
Easy enough to argue then that instead I decline it, but who would? If there was a council rebate for your council tax but you could afford to pay anyway, would you opt out?
As has been said in this thread, 'it's not possible for students to always work'. But I've known students on here, on thesite.org, who've had to work to afford their studies. I know a guy in real life who had to leave University for a year to save up cash. Shouldn't they be afforded some extra level of help? When the basic level of assistance is so nearly there. Why do some get thousands, and thousands more. The difference is staggering.
How can a student with a normal lifestyle outside of London justify receiving nearly £9000 to fund their living costs, excluding any extra work they do. Because that's the amount I received last year (if I recall correctly), and I know others who received more. If, like a normal student I'd received £3000, that £6k spare could have gone back to people from income tax, or maybe given to that woman who would have then had £1080 a month to afford to pay for her family.
But maybe you're right, I'm a hypocrite for telling people to ask if they need all they are given, when that's exactly what I'm saying.
Hold on - where exactly do you think London is?
Yes, please provide links. You understand, we am looking at comparable jobs here (as in experience, responsibility etc)? A helpdesk (as you will well know) has many levels/lines etc etc and so until I see COMPARABLE jobs offering such massively differing wages due to geographical location, I will stand by my point.
Looking at jobserve, this is the highest paying job I found under 'Helpdesk' and 'London'. There were others similar in money, but many were for the principle analyst roles and also management roles.
http://jobserve.com/WF84B17A0CA4D724D.job
This is in no way a standard 'helpdesk' role, and you certainly wouldn't be finding an investment bank hiding away in the valleys, would you now?
No, until you show me 'evidence', I will stand by my point.
That is why I was kind of agreeing with you... :rolleyes:
Elaborate - we're talking about the UK here, and yes I know there is a subprime market in the UK, but it's not currently in Crisis. The problem is in the US.
Right, and that exact role in my company would pay 15K - look it up, I work for LogicaCMG. That's what they pay. And for reference, that wasn't/isn't my role, I was in management, it was an example based on what I used to work as .. there really is that much of a difference.
Go on itjobswatch.com and check out the roles based in South Wales and London..
And also for the record, that is a pretty damn standard technical helpdesk role, what would were you expecting? Most of our guys hold CCNA/MCSE type certs and are looking around to move into technical silos in the company. [/quote]
The crisis hasn't hit yet, but there is a MASSIVE subprime market in the UK, the majority of it being self certified mortgages, like the type Northern Rock have been dishing out like cooking, you know, the ones who share price has dropped from circa 12£ per share to £2?
It's nothing to do with the US, we have a massive subprime problem fuelled by self certified mortgages, like you said, the banks wouldn't lend 75% income to mortgage, so how exactly do you think these people obtained these mortgages???
No - you give me a direct link or two, showing such examples as you said you would.
Also, you missed my financial institutions comment. Most of the roles I found were paying £17k-£27k, max. Banks pay more, simple as, and require specific experience to get there.
Ha - I used to work in a LogicaCMG building, and one of my pals is a regional director or something for them. Was a while back now. Hmmm, must find out what she does.
Don't try patronising me, pal. I know all about the Northern Rock situation (along with the B&B and A&L, with HBOS effected a bit. Kensington Group has been hammered as well). Can you provide any links showing clearly UK banks lending at an affordability level of 75%? I can't seem to find any.
I am well aware that there is a large subprime market (self certification included) in the UK - but this whole situation has come about from the issues in the US, so it's ALL to do with our pals over the pond as it's forced the rethinking of how credit risk is approached, globally.
http://news.google.co.uk/news?q=self-certification%20mortgage&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wn
Thanks
I tried plenty of searches and couldn't turn up fuck all! Bah.
Yeah - I did plenty of googling, but found no specifics for this thread. Plenty of information about what I already knew regarding the financial institutions and their current situations.
Don't make me give you one of my looks.....
*>*
Oh yes, feel that stare burrowing into your head.
Etc.
Right, to bed with me now. All stared out. Or rather, just necked 5mg of Valium as need to be up for a meeting tomorrow instead of sleeping in until 2pm as usual. Need to sleeeeeep.
And equally, the average Brit works more hours per week than any other country in Europe. In fact, I think only America, South Korea and Japan out of the developed countries work more hours on average.
I agree with your point about disability though. Only from anecdotal evidence, but I've heard a lot of people claim that the job centre staff seem to be extremely keen to get you as much money as they can, and recommend disability to people who would've otherwise gone on jobseekers instead. From personal experience with the job centre, they are appauling at anything that is related to actually getting you a job, and great at getting people onto some form of benefits.
And teachers who were teaching polish school kids said the work ethic was remarkable - they just got on with work. I remember school and most of the kids tended to laugh about and pick on kids (mostly me
And according to this site, we're owed a total of £23bn in unpaid overtime, and people not taking holidays for fear of work mounting up when they return.
And ironically, the UK is below the EU average for productivity. Either everyone doesn't do any work at work, or long hours don't equal more work done.