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Should gay marriage be made legal?

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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    *despairs*

    About consent- consent is not something that is obtained beforehand, it is something that is imlicitly given whilst performing the act- the lack fo consent is the issue in sexual abuse cases, not the having of consent.


    to give consent someone has to have the capacity to give it this is called informed consent.

    Informed consent is a process. Information must be presented to enable persons to voluntarily decide whether or not to participate in an activity.

    It is a fundamental mechanism to ensure respect for persons through provision of thoughtful consent for a voluntary act.

    The procedures used in obtaining informed consent should be designed to inform the person in terms that they can understand.

    consent needs to be explicit, not implicit and the people consenting need to understand the full implications of their actions / activity

    explicit consent when sex between 2 consenting adults is about to take place does not necessarily mean verbally agreeing it but certain actions leading upto the act are explicitly giving consent - ie foreplay, getting out a condom and so on.
    Originally posted by Kermit


    So, why cannot a male animal consent to having sex with a human female- it gets hard, it penetrates, it orgasms. I don’t see the animal complaining.


    and how does the dog show its giving consent, simply by getting an errection? and are you saying every time you got an errection you are consenting to sex?
    How would the animal express its complaint? Are animals capable of reasoning and rational behaviour?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    So if the dog consents to sleep with the woman its perfectly OK?

    *bangs head against wall*

    Have you not read or understood anything I've written?

    How can a dog give consent? It can't. End of argument. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by hobbs
    to give consent someone has to have the capacity to give it this is called informed consent.

    Informed consent is a process. Information must be presented to enable persons to voluntarily decide whether or not to participate in an activity.

    It is a fundamental mechanism to ensure respect for persons through provision of thoughtful consent for a voluntary act.

    The procedures used in obtaining informed consent should be designed to inform the person in terms that they can understand.

    consent needs to be explicit, not implicit and the people consenting need to understand the full implications of their actions / activity

    explicit consent when sex between 2 consenting adults is about to take place does not necessarily mean verbally agreeing it but certain actions leading upto the act are explicitly giving consent - ie foreplay, getting out a condom and so on.



    and how does the dog show its giving consent, simply by getting an errection? and are you saying every time you got an errection you are consenting to sex?
    How would the animal express its complaint? Are animals capable of reasoning and rational behaviour?

    Thank god there is someone on this board with an ounce of brains. :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by hobbs
    explicit consent when sex between 2 consenting adults is about to take place does not necessarily mean verbally agreeing it but certain actions leading upto the act are explicitly giving consent - ie foreplay, getting out a condom and so on.

    So, no words have to be passed, just active participation?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Im confused as to why animals are getting brought into it.

    We are talking "should gay marriage be made legal" so can we not just talk about that :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    So, no words have to be passed, just active participation?

    thats not quite what I said, is it?

    in many cases consent requires reading information and signing a form, or giving verbal consent based on read or heard information presented.

    but in the case of sex, if active participation takes place from both parties then no words need to passed.

    I didn't mention that given consent can be withdrawn at any point. and in the case of sex at that point it can no longer be consenting sex and if the other party continues it must be something else - ie sexual assult/rape

    my post was really aimed at the post that said if a dog/animal gets an errection it is consenting to sex which is as stupid as saying everytime a cat on heat rubs your leg you can have sex with it if you want.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    Im confused as to why animals are getting brought into it.

    We are talking "should gay marriage be made legal" so can we not just talk about that :confused:

    sorry becky

    to answer the question

    yes

    if a government and society (in general) has deemed homosexual relationships legal then what is the big deal about making samesex marriage right/possible- to not is just hypocritical.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by hobbs
    but in the case of sex, if active participation takes place from both parties then no words need to passed.

    ...if a dog/animal gets an errection it is consenting to sex which is as stupid as saying everytime a cat on heat rubs your leg you can have sex with it if you want.

    But can't you see the discrepancies in those two statements.

    If the dog continues to act, isn't that suggesting that they are "consenting" to the act?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    Im confused as to why animals are getting brought into it.

    We are talking "should gay marriage be made legal" so can we not just talk about that :confused:

    I must admit, I'm confused about that as well.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    But can't you see the discrepancies in those two statements.

    If the dog continues to act, isn't that suggesting that they are "consenting" to the act?

    yes in a way, but how do we know that a an animal with an errection is consenting to sex

    i think we should leave the animals out of this and if you want to continue this start a new thread about animals giving consent
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    If the dog continues to act, isn't that suggesting that they are "consenting" to the act?

    Women can be raped and have a sexual response. Does that mean rape is OK?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth

    becky, the point of bringing animals into this is the question of why is homosexuality "normal" and accepted by society, when other deviations from common sexual preferences, such as bestiality, are viewed with disgust.

    We are humans not animals so I still dont buy that to be honest.

    Also homosexuality is not always classed as *normal*. I have seen many people who are disgusted with it so its by no means classed as normal by the whole of society.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    but as plans are being tabled for homosexual marriage to become legal, it would suggest that a large number of people believe this to be acceptable.

    Any new plans they bring out regardless of what the plans are for be it seat belt laws, homosexual marriage etc initially you will have lots of people for and then lots against but after a time it becomes more acceptable even to those who first opposed. I suppose they lean to accept it and the issue is not going to go away, they have to grin and bear it :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    don't you dare start bringing rape into this.

    Why not? Isn't consent the issue there as well?
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    a dog mounting of its own free will is consenting IMHO.

    Well, you have some very strange views then. Do you really think a dog is aware what it is doing in that case? Do you think that its not just a biological programmed response?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    it has nothing to do with it because consent is not the goddamn issue here, but you are refusing to see that.

    Well I haven't a clue what you're going on about then.
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    and as for my very strange views, dogs don't think like people. dogs don't mate with other dogs for pleasure, or to enhance their relationship - they do it on a purely procreational basis. as you say, it's a pre-programmed, instinctive response, so to apply human thoughts and feelings to it is absurd.

    At last you get it. :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    no, no, no!

    oh god i really give up.

    what i am saying is that you should not apply human standards of consent to a dog, because dogs do not behave in the same manner, and do not have the same issues. a dog consents by mating.

    A dog has no concept of consent. The concept of consent is a human one and implies some degree of choice and free will. Therefore you cannot say that a dog "consents". Its a meaningless statement.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    that's my point. therefore the issue of consent does not apply.

    :confused:

    Eh?

    You seem to have gone from saying that a dog can consent to having sex with a human to saying that a dog can't. :confused: :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    i've done no such thing. i've said that since you cannot apply human standards to a dog, the standards don't apply.

    a dog can consent, by copulating, but as it cannot consent in the sense that a human can, the issue is irrelevant.

    I give up. This is like banging my head against a particularly thick brick wall.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually gwst, thinking about it, I can see what you're driving at. I just think its mistaken thats all.
    Don't take my harsh style personally, I'm like that with most peeps. :)
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