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Should gay marriage be made legal?

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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    slight side isue - how many people on here think that it is acceptable for people to have sexual relations with animals or children if it was proved that they were willing participants (and leaving the legal issue of being old enough to give consent out of it)?

    Well, an animal certainly can't ....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would question the ability to give consent without being under duress.

    I would question how we would be able to prove that they were willing - bearing in mind that sometimes even willing heterosexual partners change their story after the fact.

    It turns my stomach, personally, because neither appeals to me but I would also be interested in people's reasoning as to why it should be prevented...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    an animal couldn't be a willing participant?

    please explain.

    Hello? Are we are the same planet? Do you really think an animal can make an informed choice about sex?

    An animal may go through the sexual motions with a human because it can be "encouraged" to do so but it certainly cannot make an informed choice or judgment on it's actions. It is just instinct. And neither can small children. Just because animals and children are sexual doesn't mean that it is right to use them or that they are ready for sex.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    not my point.

    the dog fucking the woman scenario - how can you force the dog to fuck the woman? the dog is a willing participant, it doesn't matter that it doesn't really know what's going on, or that it hasn't signed a consent form. the dog is perfectly happy to fuck the woman. does a dog make an informed choice when copulating with another dog? i think not.

    By sexually manipulating the dog, you can make it want to shoot it's load - by any means possible. It's instinctive. It doesn't care if it's a man, woman, child, dog or any other animal. Normal human adults can judge on attraction, age and consent.

    Children are sexual - children often love to play with their genitals because of the good feeling it gets. But going by your argument, sex with children would be ok just because they are enjoying it? That's a bit sick.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by crescendo
    But I think there's no doubt that a male human being is designed to be with a female human being

    Designed? eh? :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    Marriage and rights are not the same thing- marriage *is* for reproducing kids

    Rubbish. What about a married heterosexual couple who never have kids. Is that not a real marriage? :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by crescendo
    Because male's are designed to be the partner's of females. That is how human being's are designed (and every other animal for that matter).

    Anything else is unnatural and shouldn't be classed as a legal union between two people. Homosexuality may be present in society, but so are many other unnatural activities (listed below) and they shouldn't be established legally in society.

    Paedophillia
    Animal fetishes/attraction
    Multiple partners (threesomes etc)

    Very slippery ground there. Leaving aside issues of consent, the use of your terms "natural" vs "unnatural" are nonsense philosophically speaking. A false binary opposition, a mere cultural construct.
    Anyway, how do you explain homosexuality in the animal kingdom?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by crescendo
    Just because it happens, it doesn't make it right.
    A lot of thing's happen in this world.

    Oh for fucks sake, you're bonkers. You can't put human values of "right" and "wrong" on what goes on with animals. :rolleyes: And by your previous arguments, if its "natural", its OK yeah?

    Your thinking is as clear as mud.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    slight side isue - how many people on here think that it is acceptable for people to have sexual relations with animals or children if it was proved that they were willing participants (and leaving the legal issue of being old enough to give consent out of it)?

    Absurd question. How can you prove an animal gave consent? :confused:
    But with children, its not as clear cut. Is a 16 year old sleeping with a 15 year old child abuse? What about a 20 year old and a 15 year old? Or a 30 year old (Bill Wyman anyone?)? Its about abuse of power more than anything I reckon...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    i did say to forget about the legal issue of consent :p

    if the child gives consent and is willing, then why should it be wrong? is it harming anyone else? is bestiality wrong if it is not harming the animal or anyone else?

    But children can't make informed judgments on what is right or wrong and in their best interests. So if they say "yes", it doesnt mean that it is right. Most abused children probably say "yes" anyway because of fear or perhaps the need to feel loved ....

    You may not harm them physically but you have no idea how you may be harming them mentally (children or animals).

    And if using an animal (or child) to achieve your own personal sexual satisfaction is deemed ok, where have your drawn your own personal line as a matter of interest?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    why is it absurd precisely?

    i asked people to ignore the issue of consent, and it is fairly easy to prove that an animal willingly participated. if all parties are satisfied, then why should they not be allowed to do whatever they wish to?

    As someone earler said - what planet are you on? How can an animal give informed consent? :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    legally children can't make informed judgements on what is right and what is wrong. but mentally, many of them are as well equipped to deal with judgements as adults are.

    abuse is a completely different issue to this one - i'm talking about willing, consenting children who know what they're doing.

    And as I said - its a difficult one. 16 and 15 is more likely to be consensual than 30 and 15. There would usually be a power imbalance between a 30 year old and a 15 year old I'd have thought. 15 year old children are (usually) very impressionable and easily manipulated.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    can you people not read?

    I haven't read anything that explains how an animal can give informed consent. Maybe you could explain it to me again?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    legally children can't make informed judgements on what is right and what is wrong. but mentally, many of them are as well equipped to deal with judgements as adults are.

    So what age is a child in this case? What upper age are you talikng about?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    legally children can't make informed judgements on what is right and what is wrong. but mentally, many of them are as well equipped to deal with judgements as adults are.

    So are you saying an 8 year old can make the same judgment call as an adult?

    p.s. I'm not trying to be obstructive - I'm genuinely trying to understand you here. :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sorry, still can't see where you've explained how a dog can give informed consent. :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    i'm saying that some 8 year olds will have same the mental ability to come to an informed judgemnt as some 16 year olds, or 18 years olds, etc.

    I agree that people mature at different rates, but (apart from obvious learning disabilities etc), there is no way that an 8 year old and an 18 year old have the same views on sex.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    i'm saying that some 8 year olds will have same the mental ability to come to an informed judgemnt as some 16 year olds, or 18 years olds, etc.

    Can you give me a scenario for example?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    *bashes head against wall* :D

    i haven't...i said to ignore the issue of legal consent. my point was the if the dog is a happy and willing participant then does it matter?

    This is like arguing with tree. :rolleyes: How can you prove that the dog gave consent? The dog is merely following instinct (as has been already pointed out), a dog is not self aware enough to give informed consent (nothing to do with legal issues).

    Now tell me again - how can a dog give consent?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
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