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Options for Iraq

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Surely that would be prohibited, they might extract the precursor for ricin from such stocks! :D

    Nah, ricin isn't an issue but Tikka in that quantity is a WMD.

    Weapon of Mass Diahorrea

    :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Speaking of WMD:

    Threats

    How can they do this if they have destroyed their WMD?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hmmm, page no longer exists. Guess it wasnt much of a threat after all, whatever it was. ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hmmm..interesting. It was an article in the Daily Telegraph claiming that Iraqi Officials have threatened to gas the Kurds if and when the first bomb is dropped in Iraq.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Somehow I really have my doubts about the veracity of such wild claims. You may choose to think this is more than spin but "Iraqi Officials" is another nice non specific that gives no indication whatsoever of the credibility of the source.

    As certain parties to this crisis get more and more anxious to attack I suspect we'll be seeing wilder claims than that even. You of all people should view such with a greater degree of scepticism.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Human shield Britons quit Baghdad
    By Charlotte Edwardes in Baghdad
    (Filed: 02/03/2003)


    Almost all of the first British "human shields" to go to Iraq were on their way home last night after deciding that their much-heralded task was now too dangerous.


    Godfrey Meynell [centre] with other human shields at Baghdad South power station
    Two red double-decker buses, which symbolised the hopes of anti-war activists when they arrived to a fanfare of publicity a fortnight ago, slipped quietly out of Baghdad on the long journey back to Britain.

    Nine of the original 11 activists decided to pull out after being given an ultimatum by Iraqi officials to station themselves at targets likely to be bombed in a war or leave the country. Among those departing last night was 68-year-old Godfrey Meynell, a former High Sheriff of Derbyshire, who admitted that he was leaving out of "cold fear". He had been summoned, along with 200 other shields from all over the world, to a meeting at a Baghdad hotel yesterday morning.

    Abdul Hashimi, the head of the Friendship, Peace and Solidarity organisation that is hosting the protesters, told the shields to choose between nine so-called "strategic sites" by today or quit the country.

    The Iraqi warning follows frustration among Saddam Hussein's officials that only about 65 of the shields had so far agreed to take up positions at the oil refineries, power plants and water-purification sites selected by their hosts.

    It heightened fears among some peace activists that they could be stationed at non-civilian sites. Mr Meynell and fellow protesters who moved into the power station in south Baghdad last weekend were dismayed to find it stood immediately next to an army base and the strategically crucial main road south to Basra. Iraqi officials said there was little point in guarding what they considered to be low-risk targets.

    Iraq's decision to force the pace was welcomed by some of the 20 Britons remaining in Baghdad. "It's only fair," said Uzma Bashir, 32, a college lecturer who is one of the team leaders.

    "We've come here as shields to defend sites and now the Iraqis are asking us to make our choice."
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Twas a bit of a loony if nonetheless sincere gesture. lol. I knew full well they wouldnt stay all that long. Eek, martha is them thar real bullets headin our way??? :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Somehow I really have my doubts about the veracity of such wild claims. You may choose to think this is more than spin but "Iraqi Officials" is another nice non specific that gives no indication whatsoever of the credibility of the source.

    As certain parties to this crisis get more and more anxious to attack I suspect we'll be seeing wilder claims than that even. You of all people should view such with a greater degree of scepticism.

    Actually, the article did name a specific official. Didn't really pay attention to the name, though. Wonder if that is why it is down?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Worked for me guys.......:confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah, it's back. Name of the official is gone though...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Conspiracy! :eek:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    If you mean in this case alone, I'll just ask you what I have asked others. How else would you get Saddam to comply...?
    But Saddam is complying, or at least beginning to comply. Therefore, if the threat of war must be there, keep it as just a threat, and only attack when Saddam is activley not complying.
    Originally posted by Greenfields
    If the supposed links to terrorism exist between Iraq and Osama's organisation exist then we can expect this resistance in the form of more September the 11ths..nice :eek2:
    I repeat, as have many others in this forum, there is no link between Saddam and Al Quaeda. Even Blair and friends are addmitting this.
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    If we keep ourseleves to ourselves, can you guarantee that other nations will do the same?
    Great. So because our puny little opinion may not make a difference, lets just do what the majority do. Baaaaa.
    Originally posted by Greenhat
    Against the Iraqi people? No. Against the Iraqi military? Yes.
    The Iraqi military is largly conscripted and unwilling to fight, because they know they'll probably die fighting for something that they don't believe in and without a hope of success. The military is largly civilians given a gun and no hope.
    And do you have a solution?
    Yes: No war.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    War Is Silly Wank your Willy!
    Touch your sack, not Iraq!:rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Me_and
    But Saddam is complying, or at least beginning to comply.

    Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You have good grounds for doubting him, just as much as everyone else have good grounds to doubt a word Bush and Blair say on the matter, given their track record so far.

    But I must say that as days and weeks pass, the case for war grows ever thinner as Saddam complies with more outstanding demands. Meanwhile the Bush-Blair-Aznar-Murdoch Axis of Idiots are running out excuses for their warmongering, after going through the WMDs, terrorist links, danger to mankind, and moral case arguments.

    So instead of pushing for a completely unnecessary second resolution and trying to start a war in mid-March, let's allow the UN inspectors do their work, eh? Remember the Axis of Idiots' endless assurances that they don't want war and that it should come as a last resort.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually it's becoming somewhat clearer what the "axis of idots" as you call it, might actually mean in their own minds (and all too patented double speak) when they say war should be the last resort.

    I suspect that with the removal of Saddam, and the re-acquisition of control over Iraq's oil reserves, production and sales, these three intend to convert Saddam's palaces into their own private resort and invite the other puppet leaders to a big Texas-styled ho-down!

    It'll of course be called The Last Resort! :lol:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Next week's plan for Iraq: put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye. :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, I suspect thousands of Iraqi civilians and up to a hundred of thousand Iraqi soldiers, as well as several hundred US and UK soldiers will be kissing their arses goodbye very soon.

    Do you know any parents whose kids have been sent to fight in Iraq? Are you going to tell them their children should be kissing their arses goodbye too?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it will be a significant blow to Muslim extremist terrorism and an incredible gain in the UK's and America's power and prestige in the Middle East as another Muslim democracy is created. It will offer an alternative to Muslim extremism and the only jobs in Palestine suicide bombers. I think we can come up with better things for Arab teens to do to make money. Also, it will provide an intelligence-gathering and listening post - right in the middle - of the area with Muslim extremisism.

    It will also inspire moderate Muslims in Iran to over-throw the Muslim cleric extremists next door. It might provide a nice jumping off point for assinations of Muslim clerics in Iran if they don't see the light, and step down for a new generation.

    Next on the list, with Saddam and Iran's sponsored suicide bombers gone, a Palestinian state created by the US, at Arafat's request...as he did yesterday. I'm sure the UK will be involved in it too.

    Fun side affects. France will be seen for what it is...including by new members of the EU. Germany will be known for selling weapons to Iraq. France, Germany and Belguim are already isolated by most of Europe...including Spain and Italy to name two.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    I think it will be a significant blow to Muslim extremist terrorism
    On the contrary my friend: this is the best possible news for Al Qaeda and Hamas. Firstly because the US will instantly win them thousands of new recruits, and secondly because as it has been pointed out to you many times before, Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror.
    and an incredible gain in the UK's and America's power
    Can't argue with that... install a puppet regime, send a message to other countries who might be thinking of ever disagreeing with the Great Master, and control much of the world's oil reserves.
    and prestige in the Middle East
    have you been drinking?
    as another Muslim democracy is created.
    Have a look at this and tell me again about the chances of democracy in Iraq provoked by US intervention.

    It will offer an alternative to Muslim extremism and the only jobs in Palestine suicide bombers. I think we can come up with better things for Arab teens to do to make money. Also, it will provide an intelligence-gathering and listening post - right in the middle - of the area with Muslim extremisism.
    Again, nothing to do with terrorism, and not responsible for the suicide bombings in Israel. Pay more attention.

    Fun side affects. France will be seen for what it is...
    One of the few countries in the world with balls and in tune with how the public feels everywhere?

    Germany will be known for selling weapons to Iraq.
    Selling weapons to a violent dictator? Never! How could they? Next you will tell me people have sold Saddam chemical and biological weapons as well...
    France, Germany and Belguim are already isolated by most of Europe...including Spain and Italy to name two.
    Not quite. It is the governments of Spain, Italy and UK that are isolated from the rest of Europe and indeed the world... and most importantly from their own people. UK = 68% against. Spain = 90% against . Italy = pretty much everybody bar little Hitler Berlusconi.
    It would seem that France, Germany and Belgium are in tune with the great majority of people and governments on earth, and Bush and his 3 Euro poodles are the ones isolated from the rest.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I suspect Aladdin that such long posts in response to the patented ignorance of pnj and some others here who can do no more than regurgitate the spin, lies, and fantasy scenarios being pumped into their narrow minds by the domestic US media, is a waste of time.

    Much better to copy their claims down and remind them of their delusions when the messes increase exponentially and little or nothing of what they have been led like lambs to believe comes to pass.

    Sadly the paranoia of my countrymen prevent them from truly learning about the world and its interconnectedness or of the many many dispicable things US administrations have done or supported and continue to do and support throughout the world that have led us to this new period of crisis.

    Much easier for them to retreat into their bravado and ignorance and convince themselves that the whole world hates them so they must be right. A solipsism that they refuse to question or free themselves of despite the fact that it too is predicated upon ignorance and lies.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thanks for the link Aladdin.

    Regarding the isolation of France, Belguim and Germany, you've left out the 15 other European countries that are on the side of the UK, US, Italy, and fearless Spain.

    France is already afraid of a recession. It only grew by 1.4% last year...and that was with Saddam's help. Kiss that goodbye baby...starting in a few weeks.

    Muslim democracy. That's the alternative to Muslim extremism.

    Also there's been reports of Europeans mistreating American tourists. Brilliant. When you're in a recession, spit on people who are in your country to appreciate iyour culture and spend money to buy your stuff.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You truly are ignorant of facts arent you pnj? Id be interested to know your sources.

    Fact is Belgium, first off isnt isolated from any part of the EU. Being the Capitol of the EU that is like saying that Washington would be isolated in sevral states didnt agree with Bush on one matter of policy. Absurd!

    Secondly 15 nations (which currently is the entirety of the EU), are NOT in favour of Washington's rush to war. Only three EU states are firmly behind Bush, as repeatedly told you (though you appear incapable of learning or comprehending fact), whilst the rest support action only if ultimately approved by the UN. None are "Anti-American", as you (and certain other non-thinkers) dismissively and falsely choose to believe.

    They are however against a unilateralist US policy of unthought out action given the turbulent history of Iraq and the region and the ease with which rushing headlong into armed conflict can and will most likely have exactly the opposite effect from what certain of our belligerent leaders have been claiming to be the impending fruits of their course of action.

    Since you know nothing of the nature and activities of the EU at the political level and are afforded only the most surface and spin drenched rhetoric on the issue by your tv media, Id suggest strongly that you stop advertising your ignorance on what is going on amongst EU leaders and even those leaders of Eastern European states waiting to join fully in 2005. Youd be surprised to know that none of them took Chirac's warning as a affront.

    Better that you focus on what our own government is doing at home where you might have some capacity to see and understand matters. You fall far short on European matters.
    Also there's been reports of Europeans mistreating American tourists. Brilliant. When you're in a recession, spit on people who are in your country to appreciate iyour culture and spend money to buy your stuff.

    Firstly, youve not seen how many American toursits choose to act in major European cities. I have, and even as a fellow countryman, I am often ashamed to witness such displays of arrogance and self importance and downright lack of propriety towards the people and countries such types have come to visit.

    Secondly, be that as it may, you cannot think that European tourists, or worse - Islamic tourists, to the US have not encountered similar rudeness by our own citizenry when visiting major cities. At least our fellow Americans dont have to contend with the additional fear that they might "accidentally" get shot should they happen to have a disagreement with someone on the street.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Youd better have a read of more insightful analyses on the likelihood of any democracy in Iraq before you start gloating too much...

    http://www.thesentimentalist.com/archives/000071.html
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is no hope as long as he continues to get his news from Fox and The New York Nazi Post.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know youre right. Obviously his supposedly liberal parents didnt instill too much critical thinking in their offspring. Nor any sense of respect for nations and peoples he has no firsthand experience with whatsoever.
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