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Ah, aggression. You mean that horrible trait of people who actually protect the society you live in.
You mean like firefighters and police officers?
Ooh, come sit with me in any EU or NATO political sub-committee meeting these days. Youll get to see how fun it is all for yourself. LOL.
Don't know many firefighters, do you? Or maybe you think passive people enter burning buildings of their own free will...
Iraq hasn't been aggressive? What do you call shooting at American and British aircraft? That's passive?
They're patrolling an agree no-fly zone. They're not firing at anyone, they're flying round in circles.
If flying round in circles is sufficient to justify being shot down, then we're all a bit stuffed for air travel, are we not?
We've only bombed in response to Iraqi violations of the terms they agreed to, or in response to Iraqi aggression, Clandestine. The aircraft patrolling the no-fly zones don't carry weapons to do otherwise (ARMs are not the same as cluster bombs).
They wouldn't twist that to fit their agenda, now would they?
My sources are the After-action reports, and the airmen and pilots who arm and fly the patrols in the "no-fly" zone. Air to Air missiles, and Anti-radiation Missiles give a very limited response ability to those patrols (matter of fact, basically guarantee that they can only fire on aircraft in the AO or fire at radars that lock onto them).
So speaketh the sock puppet of Baghdad.
Are you on Sodamn Insane's payroll, yet? Or just brown-nosing for the invite?
If anyone is a sock puppet it would have to be you. How does it feel having Richard Perle's arm up your butt?
So...
You would have everyone believe that Sodamn Insane HAS fulfilled his end of the ceasefire conditions? To observe Insane's activity is "deceitful"? ...and "braindead"? ..."propaganda"?
Only thing "transparent" is your agenda, sock puppet.
Regardless of whether it's Iraq or any other country on his list, the lies from the Bush camp as dictated by Richard Perle, et. al. will continue to snow an unquestioning public until (hopefully) it all backfires on him and he and his daddy's cronies are revealed once and for all for the criminals they are.
The fact that Saddam is a criminal is a given, the fact that public needs to wake up to Bush's own similitude to those he villifies is what requires greater attention.
Hi all,
After reading the entirity of this thread I feel compelled to voice my own opinion.
War shouldn't even be an option, the very concept is immoral - and under the guise of a life saving activity it's a laughable suggestion.
Does the end justify the means? Considering we don't know what the intended end actually is, surely we can't side with one course of action now?
The US used Agent Orange during Vietnam. It was claimed to be a "de-foliater" to allow more effective attacks upon the guerillas - but incidentally it's highly toxic and actually caused deaths and birth defects! :eek2: But this shouldn't be about previous human rights records should it, I mean few countries can claim to be clean in that sense least of all Uncle Sam.
I would like to know what gives America the right to play the big man in todays world? Lets look at any countries most basic areas of strength these days...Political strength, economic strength and military strength - which two has America begun to lose it's grip on and which one can it expand to compensate?
Contrary to my first point, once a regime has been established through violent means - it's near impossible to dislodge it without using violence. But financially we can support internal uprisings in Iraq, then again the oil isn't that easy to cream off that way...
greenfields.
Better you should discuss war with Sodamn Insane. He is the one who initiated the Gulf War, a decade ago. He is the one who refuses to abide by the cease-fire accord. Convince Insane to abide by that accord? War will not be a necessity...
And if you cannot see what is happening in front of your face? Would advise you never grow up and leave Never Never Land. Or attempt to place chess...
I served in Vietnam. Many veterans who served there are suffering from the after effects of the Agent Orange. You are suggesting that the US knew of all of the collateral issues with the defoilant? Kinda like the all of the babies born without arms and legs in the early sixties - as an unexpected side effect of thalidomide - isn't it?
Not "right". Necessity. Since no one else wants to take the point, the US is not backing away from the responsibility. Lots of parasites in the world - however - who would reap the benefit, but are too gutless to guard the gate.
And to the "why can't we just give peace a chance" crew: we did. It didn't work. Physical cowardice never will bring about peace, only subjugation, slavery, or death. Komrad Blowjob Klinton's refusal to assume responsibilitiy of office brought about the second WTC attack. Komrad Blowjob Klinton's insistence that Israel release Mohammad Atta - when Israel had him convicted and imprisoned - greatly enabled the second WTC attack.
Komrad Blowjob Klinton is no longer in office.
And exactly how many countries have been formed without violence? :rolleyes:
Better you should stay in Never Never Land. The real world is a very scary place for sheep...
If you mean generally, then I suspect that several million jews would disagree with you. If they were still alive that is.
I guarantee that those who were liberated would disagree though.
If you mean in this case alone, I'll just ask you what I have asked others. How else would you get Saddam to comply...?
It isn't an issue of supporting them financially, but of giving them the military back up, the courage to stand up to Saddam and the confidence that we won't get them started and then walk away. We failed them once before and they have never forgotten that.
The US also used DDT on its own farmfields during the same time period. Incidentally is highly toxic and actually caused deaths and birth defects.
Hindsight is wonderful. Doesn't mean anyone realized the long-term implication of Agent Orange anymore than they realized it for DDT.
Do a little research into Northern Iraq and 1991. :rolleyes:
Greenhat, you've got the cheek to give me the :rolleyes: when you actually suggest America didn't realise the 'side' effects of Agent Orange! DDT was designed for commerical use and the killing of small insects...as you said people wern't aware of the pyramid food chain problem back then so it's easy to see how that can slip the net. Agent Orange was used by the military, in a military way - it was to be sprayed directly over humans - your saying they just assumed that a chemical that eats away at organic material would be safe for humans...I hope not
Mok, millions of jews died as you said - but war didn't bring them back, or save them. Once Hitler had decided on the final solution it was going to be carried out whether a war was on or not. You can't gurantee anything about the liberated jews so don't claim you can, I _think_ they would have preferred for Hitler to be prevented from getting into a position of power in the first place. The problem came after Hitler gained the power, but hang on - Hitler hated the jews, he spent months of his life down on the streets of Vienna after being refused admission to the Art University by the jewish assessor. On the streets he watched the successful, respectable jewish drive round in their flash cars and lead the life he wanted; he was driven by a hatred. Nothing would stop him, least of all a war. Sadam has the power, and has had it for some time - don't compare him to Hitler it simply dosn't work.
Globe, interesting how when you have a big hammer all problems start to look like nails. Since when has this 'neccessity' been around, about the time America realised it wasn't the super power it once was no doubt. Or after the WTC attack? Allow me to elaborate on what drove these attacks. Violence for Muslims is against their religion, just like Christianity. The only way it can be justified in their minds is if they feel they're religion is being opressed, they can then become Jihad and fight for the freedom of worship - do you think these people become Jihad for fun? The World Trade center was not about Sadam or Iraq, it was the product of the west's attitude to the east.
greenfields.
Nope, it didn't save a single one of those who died and for that we should be truly ashamed.
Still managed to save those who were liberated though, didn't it?
Really?
Is he still in power? If not, what happened to him?
Twat.
Man of Kent, I said nothing would stop him from doing what he did to the Jewish I didn't say nothing would stop him from losing power. You can't change someone's attitudes with violence, you can change their physical appearance. Surely a way of changing someone's attitudes is by convincing them of a better idea? Also, please don't get so over excited about this discussion forum - if we all called each other twats it wouldn't be very fun would it?
Cunt.
'Material Breach'
The resolution, co-signed by the US and Spain, is also expected to say Iraq is in "material breach" of resolution 1441 ordering it to disarm and call for "serious consequences" - diplomatic language for war.
It will be lodged by Britain's ambassador Sir Jeremy Greenstock.
The stature of Spain has gone up in the world...just as "shut up" France and Germany has gone down.
You really should avoid carrying on making a fool of yourself until you obtain a more knwledgeable perspective on Geo-politics. Something you wont get from watching the tv news.
You fail to appreciate that a person's bad ideas and terrible plans can hardly be actuated when they're dead. Consequently, if you want to stop Hitler, you kill him. Makes it difficult for him to carry on doing as he does, then.
You assume:
1) They are rational
2) They listen to reason
3) You can communicate with them
4) The better idea actually appears to be a better idea tothem.
The outbreak of war does not secure the death of Sadam.
I'm opposing war not only on principle but because of practical reasoning too. It's well known he has multiple impersonators, which indicates he doesn't want to be found. A more likely scenario is that if we invade he will scuttle into hiding and organise whatever resistance he can from there. If the supposed links to terrorism exist between Iraq and Osama's organisation exist then we can expect this resistance in the form of more September the 11ths..nice :eek2:
*a weak and diseased cough is heard from kent, the voice of a wizened and frail old man whispers...* "listen to me boy...*cough*...how do you propose we deal with this situation instead...? *splutter*"
Keep ourselves to ourselves. This supposed "necessity" for bloodshed is a blatant fabrication. Ah, but it's a war against terrorism not only Iraq. Great, well after this war is over there'll be no more terrorists! Except we all know thats not going to happen, so as the goal of Bush's masterminded war on terrorism is in fact unobtainable...'right on' George!
So how about pacifism, we keep out of eastern business. That way, many of the conflicts we see today wouldn't have occurred, that way, we wouldn't be selling the arms to Sadam in the first place, that way we wouldn't be shitting ourselves about him having them now, and that way we wouldn't be walking into another war.
greenfields.
What were the active ingredients in Agent Orange? Do you know?
Why? Because he never watched Jews driving around in 'flash" cars?
Sad, really. So, a group that insists the rest of the world adopt their way of worship, means of dress, approach to life...is only doing it because they were oppressed?
Funny how when you don't have a hammer, you refuse to admit that a problem is a nail.
Really?
Ask Tojo about that. Maybe ask Goering as well. :rolleyes: