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"Dort wo man Bücher verbrennt..."
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
... "verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen". - Heinrich Heine
Trans: "Where they burn books, you will in the end burn people"
Trans: "Where they burn books, you will in the end burn people"
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I think it starts when people believe that this type of thing is acceptable. Eventually, while good men stand by, support grows until such time that it becomes state sponsored...
(Thanks to the 'Mash for that one)
There are some worrying things going on in the US at the moment. Not just that there are sizeable numbers of racist cunts peddling their obscene shit about, but that some of them are actually mainstream politicians.
It's an election year.
If refer you to my previous post. There is a worrying undercurrent in the US at the moment, we also have a own few idiots here...
Sarah Palin Speaks
As usual she misses the fact that the actual link is intolerance of Islam.
Possibly though given that the UK, US and Germany remain vibrant democracies despite organised book burnings of the Satanic Verses, Harry Potter and what looked like a French translation of Hugh Trevor Roper's book on Hitler I think the risk is extremely minimal.
And certainly it more minimal than the risk of us slouching towards authoritarianism because the 'good' men decide to use anti-pollution or health and safety legislation to stop other people exercising their rights (though frankly the risk that if the local county does decide that burning the Koran violates local laws on bonfires and toxicity that the US will be rounding up and undesirables to send them to the US equivalent of Gulags is also extremely low)
It's a fair point.
I don't agree with burning books, it shows a lack of tolerance and does highlight a dangerous undertone which even Herr Heine recognised back in the 19th Century. I will shout from the rooftops, not about the act itself but the intolerance it demonstrates.
By the same token I don't believe that any US law officials should stop it, under any guise. That is controlling free speech (I wish out laws enshrined that like their do) and I take an equally dim view of that.
Intolerance isn't defeated by laws. It's defeated by liberation, by force of argument.
I may not have written it well, but I am suggesting that there is a danger in using H&S and pollution legislation as a back door way to stop this man exercising his rights
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7992411/911-Koran-burning-what-the-law-says.html
But if you're alright with this I expect your next post to be fully supportive of councils using anti-terrorism legislation to spy on dog-fouling...
Welcome back MoK, I was starting to think someone had hacked your account...
Nah, I think governments should at least be upfront and honest, if they're going to ban things.
Having said that, I do believe there are times when it might be in the wider public interest to stop someone from being a cunt, even if it infringes their freedom of speech. For instance, I am glad to live in a country that prevents the likes of the Westboro Church from entering with the intention of picketing funerals of homosexuals and dead soldiers. You might think Britain is less 'free' than the US for this- I happen to think it is actually the exact opposite.
It does not need to be all or nothing. Lines and can be drawn quite effectively, and even if a few individuals see their right infringed from time to time, it is preferable IMO to a free for all situation that can lead to cunts like this risking an enormous amount of grief for potentially tens of thousands of others. Sure, it is paramount to ensure such powers are not abused and used only in exceptional circumstances, but so long as that rule is observed, absolutely fine by me.
Like you I think that Westboro Church a deeply offensive group and I have little compassion for them. Where we differ is that I like the fact that the freedom they have to make their statements is the same one we have which enables you to call them "cunts" and me to agree with your sentiment, whilst also arguing with you.
Yes, but how would've this given them shit-loads of stuff to write about? I've they hadn't stirred it up a bit, they wouldn't have a load of "muslim outrage" to shout about, and maybe 3 people wouldn't have been shot in Afghanistan yesterday. I'm sure they're fucking pleased with themselves. This is the same as the Danish cartoons incident. Nobody was genuinely offended. A lot of people were told they should be offended (not by the media this time, although not showing the pictures in the UK certainly validated that offence). If the media hadn't bothered with this story, nobody would've ever heard about it, and those muslims who did find out would've likely just dismissed him as some nutter looking for publicity.
How about this ?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/09/AR2010090907747.html